Cynthia Coufal shares her journey from a troubled, rebellious teenager struggling with religious expectations and self-worth to becoming a teacher, coach, and advocate for teens navigating anxiety and identity. In this episode, we talk about healing old wounds, understanding family dynamics, and helping young people build confidence from the inside out.
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What if the very struggles that once made you feel broken became the reason you could help others heal?
In this episode, Cynthia Coufal shares her deeply personal origin story—from growing up as a rebellious teen in a strict religious environment to becoming an educator and coach who helps teens navigate anxiety, self-discovery, and life's biggest transitions. Cynthia opens up about the years she spent believing she wasn't good enough, the impact of religious trauma, and the healing journey that followed divorce and finding a healthier sense of self.
Toby and Cynthia explore why so many teens feel misunderstood, how parents and children can learn to see situations from each other's perspectives, and why confidence often grows from self-awareness rather than achievement. Cynthia also shares insights from her coaching work, including the importance of meeting teens where they are, helping them regulate emotions, and supporting students as they transition into college and adulthood.
This conversation is a powerful reminder that our hardest experiences can become our greatest source of empathy, and that sometimes the people best equipped to guide others are the ones who've walked through the struggle themselves.
About Cynthia Coufal:
Cynthia Coufal is a teen anxiety coach, former educator, and host of The Teen Anxiety Maze podcast. Through one-on-one coaching, she helps teens and young adults build self-awareness, manage anxiety, strengthen confidence, and navigate major life transitions with greater clarity and resilience.
Connect with Cynthia:
🌐 Website: https://www.betterregulatethannever.com/
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cynthia-coufal-836a2236/
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cynthiacoufalcoaching/
💬 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cynthiacoufalcoaching
🎙 Podcast: https://www.betterregulatethannever.com/podcast
📹Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO9WBijdxeYpQSekM7RZYvA
🎁 Free Resource: https://cheerful-writer-462.kit.com/f48953fbed
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My guest today is Cynthia Coufal, a former school counselor turned teen anxiety coach and founder of Cynthia Coufal Coaching. In this conversation, Cynthia shares how her own experience as a rebellious teenager shaped the work she does today, helping teens feel seen, heard, and understood. We talk about growing up on a farm, navigating religious expectations, the long road to self-acceptance, and why so many young people are simply looking for someone who will listen without judgment. We also explore the relationship between parents and teens, the power of empathy, and how our most challenging experiences often become the foundation for the work we're meant to do.
Toby Myles: Hey, Cynthia. Welcome to the podcast.
Cynthia Coufal: Oh, thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Toby Myles: I'm excited for this conversation. So I usually start by sharing how we know each other, and we met in, um, the Impact Incubator coaching group. Um, and, um, it's been already a couple months since we hopped on a one-to-one call and just chatted, and I felt like there's so many things in our lives that were so similar, and it was like...
I felt like we had known each other for a long time. It surprised me- Mm-hmm ... when I was like, "Oh, this is the first time we've ever talked." And so I, I knew that you would, um, be a great guest to have on the podcast, and I know this is gonna be a really amazing conversation. So I would love for you to take me back to a moment in time, or for some people it's like a group of moments, um, over a period of time, that you feel like really kind of put you on the path that you're on right now.
Cynthia Coufal: Okay. Well, um, I work with teenagers, and so I... Everything I do is because of, I think, how I was as a teenager. I was a very rebellious teenager. I mean, in the scheme of things, you know, when I tell people now the stuff, it seems pretty tame, but in the time when I was a teenager, I was a teenager in the '80s- The things that I, that I was doing in my town was pretty wild and out there, and my parents of course hated every minute of it.
I think Um, I grew up on a farm-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Cynthia Coufal: which I hated the whole time. Um, I didn't probably hate it as much when I was in elementary school 'cause I didn't know what I was missing, but I'm an extrovert, and, you know, nobody knows all these things about themselves when they're little. And so I just kept thinking, "I don't like it here," and this doesn't feel comfortable to me, but I didn't know why.
Mm-hmm. I just didn't like it, but it was because there's no people there. Like we were- Right ... out, and I didn't see people all summer long. I actually was very rarely around any other children until I was five because I, I'm the oldest, and then I have a sister who's three years younger than me. But on the farm, when you don't go to school and you don't live in town, and we went to a tiny little church that my sister and I were the youngest kids in the church for the most part.
Or there were a couple other kids that might be our age, but they didn't come all the time. So w- we just didn't have a lot of experience being around people my age. And then when I got to school, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I love school." "There are people and I love all these activities." And then summer would come and it was like, uh, you know, it was, it was boring.
So when I was a teenager, then I got really rebellious because I was, I felt like no one was listening to me when I said, "I don't like this. I don't want to live this way. I wanna have friends. I wanna be with people. I wanna be in activities. I wanna, you know, do all the things that an extrovert would do."
Toby Myles: Right.
Cynthia Coufal: And my parents, they were nice. Like, my pa- my parents were not bad people, but they were just like, "Well, this is our life and this is what we do." And I'm like And I just, I was so angry at them that they wouldn't listen to me that I just decided I'm gonna do whatever I want. And they're not gonna tell me what to do.
So I just started, um... Before I could drive, which on the farm you drive really early, and I probably got my, um, my farmer's permit when I was 14 years old, but I didn't have a vehicle of my own. Mm-hmm. So I could sometimes take their vehicle, and I did, and, um, would go to town. Or, like, one time I took, we had a three-wheeler, which that was before three-wheelers were out of, were, were illegal, and now people drive four-wheelers, but we had a three-wheeler on the farm.
And one time I drove it to town in the middle of the night because I was like, "I wanna see my boyfriend." "And I don't have a car, so I'm gonna take this, this three-wheeler." And he lived in another state, which sounds crazy. It was really probably only about 60 miles from where I lived, but I drove this three-wheeler 60 miles- Oh, my gosh.
and then I spent the night with him, and then, you know, like, my parents, they never knew where I was. And I, I don't, it was just- And it was all because I just wanted them to listen to me and care about- Mm-hmm ... what I had to say, and just know that I'm not this kind of person. I wanna be this other kind of person, and you're not l- listening, so I'm just gonna do whatever.
And I was kind of rebellious in school, too, skipping school and, um, drinking a lot, you know, all of those kinds of things. Um, and I think when I finally decided I'm gonna be an educator, be a teacher, be a school counselor, I was finding kids like me all along, and I, I, they just resonated with me, and I resonated with them 'cause I was like, "I totally get you."
Mm-hmm. "I know why you're hating everybody and everything, and let's talk about it, and let's..." And I could tell immediately, like, they would just, like, sink into their seat, like, "Oh, thank God somebody's listening to me."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: And that is still absolutely my favorite thing in the world, and I still have that-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm
Cynthia Coufal: with all of my clients. When they tell me all the things, there isn't anything they could tell me that I wouldn't listen to or try to, um, help them figure out, and I don't, you know, 'cause I don't have any judgment about any of those- Right ... things. And, and sometimes if, if it makes sense for me to share something about being a rebellious teenager or- You know, just some of the mistakes and problems that I had.
I mean, I, they also are like, "Oh, an adult that's successful and nice one time made a bad choice." You know? Like, that's okay, and I'm not the worst person in the world. Mm-hmm. And I, I love that because I just kept seeing adults as, like, these perfect... You know, they, they never did bad things. I think part of that too, kind of going back to this origin thing for a minute, my parents are pretty religious, and when you're in a small farming community, religion is a huge deal.
Mm-hmm. I mean, most people are religious in some way.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: But my parents were very, um, you know, it was sort of a fire and brimstone kind of thing. Like, if you do these things- Yeah ... you're going to hell, and all this stuff. And so I was, when I was little, I was terrified of going to hell, and then after a while I was like, "Oh, well, that's where all the fun people are gonna be."
"So I think I'd rather go there," so. So then I just did, like, if my parents said one thing, I said the opposite thing. Mm-hmm. And, um, and so the religious part of it too, a lot of the people, adults that were in my life were pretty perfect in a way. Like, they weren't drinking. They weren't, um, you know, they weren't rebellious people.
They weren't cussing. They weren't, you know- Right. Like, all the things that I was told were bad, those people weren't doing that. Like smoking. Mm-hmm. You know, nobody smoked. Nobody, nobody got divorced. Nobody, you know, like, everyone was just, when I looked at them, it looked like they all have it figured out and I'm just this bad, terrible person.
And when I was thinking I'm a bad, terrible person, then you just keep kind of getting caught in that- Mm-hmm ... those cycles. And I, I just want, I just wanted kids to know that, you know, that isn't, doesn't mean anything. Like, that doesn't, you know, making bad choices and doing things that are rebellious doesn't make you a bad person, and maybe you might not want to do some of those things, but, um, just because we want you to live and be here forever.
But, um, I, I just tried to help kids to see that that wasn't, um, that there was someone, an adult who could listen to them and care about what they had to say.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: And that has just always been my biggest message, no matter- Mm-hmm ... what I'm doing. And I, I see that now with my grandkids, you know? I feel like I will always be somebody that they can just tell everything to, and I'll just be the person listening and, and meeting them where they are and trying to help them- problem solve it or figure it out, or if they want advice, I would give it to them.
But like just being the person that lets them, like kind of like being a mirror to somebody. They, they can- Mm-hmm ... reflect and I can reflect back. And y- and you know probably from working with people that sometimes that's the best kind of, um, breakthroughs or whatever that you have, is that you're s- you're saying the words.
Like no one's- Mm-hmm ... telling you what the words are, but you say them out loud, and maybe somebody reflects them back or just is listening, and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I just figured out my problem." Right. You know, "I just figured out what it is." And I, I see kids go through that too, where they're talking to me and then they, they stop themselves and say, "I think I just figured out what the problem is."
And I love that because- Yeah ... that's what we want for our kids. That's what we want young people to have as they go into adulthood because life is hard. Mm-hmm. There's lots of hard things that happen, and I want them to feel confident and good about who they are and their decision-making, and that they can know that they can go to people and get help and it's okay and-
Toby Myles: Yeah
Cynthia Coufal: I don't know. So that's why.
Toby Myles: Yeah. I think it's interesting. I want to circle back to you as like a rebellious teen. What was the, um- Like, it's clear to me that you... why you were doing it, right? Like, you, you felt like you were misunderstood. You didn't want to live necessarily the quiet farm life like your family did.
Um, and so you were, um, you were doing what you wanted to do, but I'm really curious, like, what were, what were the repercussions? I mean, were you grounded a lot? Um, were you... Y- you know, did your... Coming from a religious family, was it like, "Oh, you gotta be, we need this girl to be in church more because that's where she's gonna get fixed"?
Like, tell me what that time period was like for you.
Cynthia Coufal: Those are good questions because I've seen both. I've seen so many, uh, different types of consequences based on this kind of behavior. But I think my parents at the beginning, my mom, um, I mean, of course she was like, "You need to read the Bible, and you need to..."
You know, she was using religion to try to rein me in.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: But I think she also knew that that wasn't gonna work, 'cause she's a pretty smart lady, too. Mm-hmm. Um, and so I think she real- I'm sure she really struggled with what to do with me.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: And my dad secretly understood me. Couldn't say he understood me because my mom was like, "This is terrible and bad."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: And so, you know, sometimes he would say, "Cynthia, I get why you wanna be around people, 'cause so do, so do I." But, you know, I still, because, um, I think I had already started doing all the things I wanted to do, I just could not listen to anything that- Mm ... like, there, if there was any reins on me at all, I went even crazier to get away from that.
Yeah. But, um, I think they started at first to ground me, and I remember the very first time that I... 'Cause I would get in s- so much trouble because- ... really in school I didn't get in as much trouble
Like, students that I knew now, if they did the things I did, they would've gotten in much more trouble than I did in school. But I remember one time I rode the pep club bus to a game because, um, I wanted to meet my boyfriend there because I couldn't drive still. This was before I was driving, so I was like, "Well, the bus will drive me there."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: And then I left with my boyfriend and never came back. And so then when the pep club bus, that's a school sponsored thing-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Cynthia Coufal: is coming home and th- one of their people is gone-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Cynthia Coufal: a minor that they are in charge of.
Toby Myles: Yes.
Cynthia Coufal: Um, I was never allowed to ride the pep club bus again, so that wa- ... was one of the things.
So I was like, "Oh, there's one of my transportation things taken away."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: Um, and my parents would ground me and, well, one time I said I was spending the night with somebud- someone, but of course I wasn't spending the night with them, and then I just ran around the town or whatever all night long. And so then my parents said I couldn't spend the night with people anymore because they couldn't trust that I was telling the truth.
Um, of course my mom said it was for the rest of the high school, and I was a freshman. But, um, you know, that didn't actually end up happening because after a while it, I don't know if they just gave up-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Cynthia Coufal: or, um, I, I think it was a lot of giving up because it was a lot of stress and turmoil for them as a couple and just them as parents.
Sure. And I, I, I know that they were thinking, "Oh my gosh, she's gonna die."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: Because I was drinking and driving and, um, getting blackout drunk in bad situations, and I know that they were scared for my life. Um, but it always just came out as anger towards me instead of, like they never said, "Listen, we are just worried that you're gonna die."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: They were just like, "You're being terrible and you've gotta get yourself figured out." And so probably by the time I was a senior, um, I mean, my mom and I did not get along. She pretty much just said mean things to me all the time, um, because she was just so frustrated she didn't know what to do with me.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: And I just said mean things to her 'cause I didn't wanna have anything to do with her because I felt like she just didn't care, didn't wanna, like, listen to what I had to say.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: But they didn't, I didn't get grounded or in trouble anymore. They were just like, "We're done. We're just done-" They're
Toby Myles: tired
Cynthia Coufal: dealing with whatever your problem is, so you just do whatever and just-" Yeah ... "don't talk to us."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: Uh, or I guess my mom was mostly, "Don't talk to us." My dad was not really like that. Um, and then when I, well, and when I went to college, I dropped out by October of that first year out of high school. You know, like, you go in August, and then by October- Mm-hmm
I had dropped out, and I just went to go live with my boyfriend, but I didn't tell my parents. And they saw my car at his apartment during the week, uh, when I was supposed to be at school, and so they called him. You know, that, that was when the phone book, and they could look at his name- ... and then call that number.
You know, like-
Toby Myles: I remember the phone
Cynthia Coufal: book.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: So they called into the apartment, and he was like, "This is your mom." And I was like I'm not here, you know? And so he said, "Oh, she's not here." And my mom said, "Then why is her car there?"
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: And so he, he just handed the phone to me and he was like, "This, I'm out," you know, like, "This is your problem, not my problem."
Mm-hmm. Um, and I ended up marrying that guy later, and my parents had said at that time, "Well, if you're gonna live there in sin, uh, we're not paying for your wedding. Just don't talk to us about anything." Well, my parents are, you know, they, they're softies. And so, you know, when it came time to actually get married, they were like, "Let's do all the things," and they kind of got over all that stuff.
I do... I mean, my mom said to me, I think it was maybe during my wedding showers, she just said to me privately, she was like, "He didn't like you." And I said- ... "Yeah, I didn't like you either." Um, but when we didn't live together anymore, then, um, you know, I c- I could deal with her. And, um, she's still alive, 92 years old, and we still- Wow
we just don't talk about the things that, like, because religion is still, uh, an issue between the two of us. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I, I do go to church, but my church is practically the complete opposite of her church. And, you know, she doesn't understand why I have that type of religion, you know, like, "Where did I go wrong?"
Yeah. What, what caused this or whatever. And it's just like, this is who I've always been, and you just don't want to... I mean, I literally have always been this person. Yeah. I can't remember a time when I thought differently. And, um, so they, they tried to do the, you know, "You're grounded," and-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Cynthia Coufal: uh, "We're taking things away," and all of that.
But I, I don't know if I was just... I mean, the, the punishments weren't severe enough, 'cause a lot of my friends would say, "Oh, I'd be in so much trouble if I did that stuff."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: You know, "I wouldn't even try it." And I think they were, they were permissive enough that it gave me the leeway to, to become, you know, completely out of control, and then they didn't know what to do about bringing me back in.
Yeah, yeah. So then they just gave up on it. And, um, I really, I mean, I think I probably would've, if they would've gotten tough- I think I would have gotten worse.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: So I almost, I mean, I don't know for sure, but I feel like I was so angry about how I wanted to live my life and how they were trying to control it that I think if they would have...
Because when they just sort of gave up and were like, "Just whatever, just don't talk to us about-" Yeah ... things, um, I feel like I got a little bit calmer then because- Mm ... I didn't have this, I didn't have something to push against so hard. And, um, but I wouldn't say that. I mean, I certainly did not raise my kids that way, so I know that, you know, that was a whole nother thing.
But, um, yeah, I, they, they tried and then it was like, we don't know. And, um, I just think I was such an, an anomaly, I guess. My, because my mom was literally perfect, uh, when she was growing up. To this day, I've asked her about her story 'cause I've been trying to do her origin story. Mm-hmm. And I have this book that has questions and it's like, "Tell about a time when you got in trouble at school."
Well, she never got in trouble at school. "Tell about a time when your parents were mad at you." Well, my parents were never mad at me. You know, tell, you know, and it's just like, and literally I think that's true. Yeah. Like, my mom was like this perfect person who just did everything by the book, and she liked it that way, which is fine.
Mm. And then she had two daughters, 'cause my sister was as wild as, as I was.
Toby Myles: Uh-oh.
Cynthia Coufal: Um, yeah, I know. I feel really sorry for them so much. Um, but they had, she had these two girls that were the complete opposite of her and she was like, "I have no idea what to do with this." And she still says to me when we talk about her parenting and, you know, what happened and all that, 'cause she sees me with my daughter and how we get along and we did not have those same issues, um, she says, "I just, I just didn't know what to do with you."
She said, "I couldn't understand why you wanted to drink. I couldn't understand why you wanted to run around." She said, "I was completely content to stay at home all the time." And I'm like, "Because we don't have the same personality." And, um-
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: Yeah ... and she does, she gets it now and I think she feels a little bit sorry that she didn't try to understand me more.
But, um, a- and I'm glad we've been able to, you know, I, I love her and I enjoy, I go and see her every month, too. hang out and do all the things. But, um, it was a, was a difficult time, and I could have died, um, many times, and I think about that a lot, that there was a lot of really just bad mistakes. One, there was, you know, when you're drinking a lot, you're in a lot of dangerous situations.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: There was, you know, sexual assaults. There, you know, when you think about all the things that, you know, go on, and I, I didn't ever go to jail luckily. Mm . But I do remember my friends and I stole some pumpkins one Halloween, as really a lot of kids do, you know, like taking them off the porches or whatever, and throwing them on the street.
Or, I think we actually kept a bunch of them, 'cause we lined them up at the school just to be like, "Hey, look, we stole these 25 pumpkins," or whatever. And, um, one of the pumpkins had some sort of antique candle holder in it that, you know, and we didn't even remember where we got them. We just grabbed them from all these houses, and then, uh, because they were lined up at school and it was a school day, the person that had the antique, needed it, came to the school, but it wasn't in there, and I think it had just fallen out.
Like, we didn't know it was there. Mm. We didn't purposely take it. But he had called the police.
Toby Myles: Oh, my
Cynthia Coufal: gosh. And so the police came to school, and we got called to the office, and they read us our rights because they wanted us... Like, they, they read us our rights before they asked us questions about, "Where were you?"
and, "When you took these, what did you do?" And, you know, like, those kind of questions. Yeah. So I did, you know, like, I got that close. But, you know, there wasn't any other, you know, thing that happened after that.
Toby Myles: Oh, my gosh. So I think- Yeah,
Cynthia Coufal: thank
Toby Myles: goodness. So like, I...
Cynthia Coufal: Yeah. I- Because I think that if I was doing that stuff now, I probably, there would have been something that went on.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, um, so you survived teenagerhood. Yes.
Cynthia Coufal: Yes.
Toby Myles: Um, you dropped out, you said, um, in your senior year. So w- so how did you get from that then, and I'm guessing that you're estranged from your parents for a period of time, but then you, you went to college and studied, um, and got your teaching degree.
Mm-hmm. So how, how did that happen? Because I'm, I'm trying to imagine- Well- ... like, you being the re- the rebellious kid and then it suddenly occurring to you like, "Oh, maybe I need to go to college and get an education."
Cynthia Coufal: Well, and I always wanted to go to college. That was the other thing, too. In my community, um, it was not really- There was 47 kids in my graduating class, and I would say six-ish went to college.
It was not, um, it was not something that people really cared about because on, in farm communities, most kids stay on the farm. Mm-hmm. You know, like, you just keep doing the family business.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: And I th- I think because I hated the farm, I can't even remember a time when I didn't think, "I'm going to college."
Mm-hmm. I'm... And I love learning. That's one of my strengths, and so I was always reading and always learning things, and so I knew I wanted to go to college because I knew I wanted something bigger and better than what I was seeing in my community. Mm-hmm. And I, I graduated from high school. I dropped out of college.
So, like, you know, I... And when I graduated, I was 17. I was one of the youngest kids in my class, so I was 17 when I graduated, and then when I went to college, I had just turned 18, like, that week.
Toby Myles: Okay.
Cynthia Coufal: And, and I went to the, the big state college because that's where I wanted to go, and coming from a class of 47 kids, going to a state university where there's thousands of people-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm
Cynthia Coufal: um, I thought, "This is the greatest thing in the world. I'm out of here. I'm never gonna talk to anybody from my town again. I'm never talking to my parents again." You know, like, it was just like, "I'm out of here." But when I got there, um, I was so lonely and sad because I p- everybody knew me in my town. Mm.
And even though I wouldn't say I was popular, peop- I was notorious. And so, you know, like, everywhere I went, people were like, "Oh, Cynthia, what are you doing? What's going on?" And, you know, I go there, nobody knows me, nobody pays any attention to me. And then I was fairly smart, um, in my class because I read all the time.
I loved learning. Um, there's not a lot of competition in a class of 47, and I would go to the, the classes there thinking, "Well, this is a breeze just like high school," and it wasn't. Like, there were actually really smart people there. And I remember thinking, "Oh, I don't think I learned enough to do this."
And then I had, I s- I met my then future husband- that summer before I left. Mm-hmm. So he was still back in the hometown, and I was obsessed with him, and I just thought, "I've gotta get back there and see him." So I started going home a lot so I could see him. I didn't go home to my home, but I would go to his apartment.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: And then I just, I got so behind, and I didn't know what was going on, and I was so embarrassed, and I didn't want my parents to tell me that I had to come home, so I just left.
Toby Myles: Mm.
Cynthia Coufal: And, um, went... And I didn't even tell my best friend, who was, uh, in the floor above me, because I thought, I knew she would try to talk me out of it, and I didn't want her...
I didn't want anyone to tell me what to do, even my friends. Yeah. Yeah. And so I just went home then to live with him. I only, um, well, I lived with him the rest of the time. I knew that I wanted to be with him so bad that no matter where I went to school, I would just wanna be with him. So I thought, "How can I go to college and be with him all the time?"
So there was a community college that I could drive to f- 30 minutes away.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: And I went, starting that January then, I started going there, and I just drove there every day so I could still be at home every night with him. And then, um, there was a four-year college that was 50 miles from there, and so I drove, like, the, the last two years, I drove 50 miles to get my, um, bachelor's in education.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: And I had my daughter the semester before I student taught, and then I student taught, and after I g- student taught, I got a job right after that, and I worked until three years ago. So, like, I just worked full time ever since then. That's why I was able to retire at 54, because I had all of my employment points to get retirement- Hmm
because I had worked, you know, for so many years, and then it's- Yeah ... how many years you've worked plus your age, it has to equal 85, and when it equals 85, then you can get retirement from, at least from Kansas. I'm sure other places are similar to that. Yeah, they're
Toby Myles: similar. Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: Um, so I had her, you know, then I did my student teaching, and then I just, I just kept living this life with, with my husband then.
Um, he wasn't the best person to pick, and, um- ... eventually, that's one of the things that we kind of bonded on at, at one point, is choosing the wrong person the first time. And I was only 19 when I married him, and, um, but I was with him for 19 years. And then I just decided that I don't, I can't do this anymore, and, and I left- Hmm
that town, but I'd stayed, you know, I went back to that hometown, and then I was there, which was another thing that was so... It, it became very embarrassing, because when I'm a teenager and I'm wild and everyone, uh, notoriously knows me, that's all fun and games.
Toby Myles: Right.
Cynthia Coufal: And who cares? I'm out... I mean, I'm gonna go out here and no one's ever gonna know me again.
Well, then I come back- Yeah ... and I live there as a professional. I didn't ever work in the town, but they knew I was a teacher and a school counselor. And I'm, so I'm a professional, I'm a mom of kids that are going to school, and everybody knows all the stuff that I did.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: I, I kept thinking that it wouldn't matter, but it was, it was very embarrassing for me most of the time.
Yeah. Because when my kids got old enough to go out into the world without me, they would come home and say, "Um, somebody said that you did this." You know, like, they would tell, they would tell me stuff. Some of it was, like, very much embellished, way crazier than anything that I actually did. Um, but I mean, it was embarrassing to them because they were like, "Oh my gosh, these people said this about you, and they said you did these things," and, um, and I just kept living with it thinking, "Oh, well, you know, it doesn't matter," but it really mattered a lot.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: And so I was kind of struggling with all of that, and still trying to make other kids' lives way better, and, and I feel like I did a good job of that. But I know now that, you know, there was... I was torn a lot because- Yeah ... I, I mean, I really was in a lot of shame for a long time because then that religious stuff comes back to me where, well, you really are a sinful person, and God's disappointed in you, and, you know, you're bad.
And so for a long time, I, I secretly felt that way even though I'm teaching kids that's not the case, but I don't believe that for myself.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: And that took me a long time to recover from. Um, and I, I feel like I am totally recovered from that now, but it took moving from... well, getting divorced from him because he constantly would bring that in, too, 'cause he knew that was what made me feel bad.
And so he would say things like, "God is, God can't save you," and, you know- Oh, wow ... you, you know, "You're... You are... You'll never be as good as me," or, "You'll never, you know, amount to the things that I do," or, you know, just-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Cynthia Coufal: that kind of stuff. And I just kept believing it because I thought, "Well, yeah, it's, it's true 'cause I did all these things," and I, you know, was disrespectful to my parents and-
Toby Myles: Yeah
Cynthia Coufal: you know, all the stuff. Yeah. And, um, so moving away from there, getting divorced, um, meeting my beautiful husband now who is perfection, um, and there was just a lot of... I would say the last 10 to 15 years has been a lot of healing, but I finally really feel like this, this is me, that, well, this is who I always was.
Mm-hmm. But this is my, um... I've embodied that rebellious person, and there's this part of my brain that never grows up, but I think that part is the part that really connects to teenagers.
Toby Myles: Yes.
Cynthia Coufal: Because I never have forgotten what it's like to feel like them.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: I think a lot of adults forget that.
Toby Myles: Yeah, for sure.
I think that what is so fascinating to me is that you went towards that, um, age group because- Because you felt a connection, like you were that rebellious teenager, and where a lot of adults might say, "Oh my gosh," like, "teenagers, no thank you," right? Mm-hmm. But you went towards it, and maybe you, maybe it wasn't necessarily fully conscious, maybe it was at the time, to gravitate towards that group.
Um, but I j- I think that, you know, like it really is... Like your origin story really did start in your own- Mm-hmm ... youth, which is not always the case for... I mean, obviously we all have things that influence us as, as children- Mm ... but there's such a direct connection to that and to the work you did as a teacher, but also now in your, um, coaching business and with your clients.
Yeah. And so I'm curious, um, because you, you mentioned like the, um, your parents not understanding you and not understanding why you couldn't just be happy staying on the farm and all those things. And so I know you work with the teenagers, but how much of the work you do is really, like, the family as a whole?
Because I would guess that there are plenty of other parents and teens who feel like they don't understand each other.
Cynthia Coufal: Right. That, that actually happens a lot. Um, I, I do work with the parents obviously with m- when I have minors, you have to work with the parents too in some way. Like I'm not actually directly coaching them or, um, you know, having separate meetings with them, but I do, like, keep email and text back and forth, especially if, like, I'm working on specific things with a client and then the parents are seeing that they're not following through or something else new pops up that they're like, "Well, now what do we do about this thing?"
And, you know, they'll send me texts or emails about like, "How do we handle this?" Or, "What should we say or do?" Mm-hmm. Um, and I'm always fine to do that, and I do think that that's part of it because it isn't just the kid's problem-
Toby Myles: Right ...
Cynthia Coufal: when they're healing and changing things and fixing things. Um, it's the whole family.
But what I probably do more of, because, because I'm not directly working with the parents, and that would... I feel like that would just be a whole nother business, and I'm not quite even sure how I would- Yeah ... put those two things together. I spend a lot of time talking to kids about, um, looking at things from their parents' perspective, and it's interesting because, you know, I don't...
I, I still wonder what I would have thought if somebody would have said, "Now think about how your mom feels about this," or, "Think about how your dad feels about this." But I think I do it in a way where I'm like, "I totally get what you're saying, and I... There's nothing wrong with what you're thinking. But I just want you to look at all the pieces.
I want you to see everything because..." And it really does help them because- They, they do have sometimes have different empathy for their parents when they really think about it from the parent's point of view. Mm-hmm. And I, I try to help kids understand that, you know, parents typically, m- and my parents did this, they came at me with anger.
But really that's not the emotion that, it they were really feeling. Mm-hmm. I mean, anger is what they showed me, but they were really scared and they were sad.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: And they, you know, like, and so I try to explain to them that, yes, your parent's getting angry, but let's look at what, what really is going on.
Let's go one layer deeper than that. Right. And I think it's helpful to them. And there's, um, I s- for whatever reason, I think people just find... The, the right people find you, or the people that need what you have find you, and I've had so many kids that religious trauma is part of what's going on. Mm-hmm.
And I think I can speak to that a lot because I understand, um, believing a lot of the, the ideas that you're being taught as a child in your religion, but also wanting to have your own ideas and wondering, you know, or the parents might be like, "You absolutely have to think this or do this." Mm-hmm. And, um, and they're like, "But I don't wanna do that."
Yeah. And so we talk about that it's okay to not wanna do that, and how do you, how do you compromise? How do you come, how do you somehow come to the middle? Like, I had a girl that, um, their fa- her family was Mormon, and in that, in that religion you're supposed to go away after high school for two years on a mission trip.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: And she said, "I don't wanna go on that mission trip. I don't really even wanna be..." And then I think they also went to church. Well, they didn't make her go to the 4:30 in the morning church every morning, but I, I did have some students who did that. Um, but she had to go on Wednesday and Sunday, and then they wanted her to go on this mission.
And she was a junior, so she was getting close to that time where she was gonna have to go away for two years, and she said she didn't wanna do any of that. And so she said, "Well, I just always try to get Wednesdays and Sundays on my work schedule so I don't have to go to church." You know, like, I'm just like, "Oh, well, I have to work."
Yeah. And I totally got it 'cause that's what I used to do that kind of stuff too. And I said, "Well, you know, what would help you get along better with your parents?" And she said, "Well, probably if I went on Wednesday or Sunday to church, they, she would be happier." Mm-hmm. And I was like, "Well, how hard would it be to just go one of those times and then work on the other j..."
You know, like, and so I just try to help them- Be teenagers, and also don't make it so hard on yourself. You know? Yeah. Because the, the more you rebel and the, the really the more, the more people try to control you. And that was one thing that I didn't learn until I was an adult, um, and I, and just in all my readings and with psychology and stuff, but we, we teach people how to treat us.
And so I kept thinking, "Well, these teachers are mean, and my parents are mean. They're doing all these things to me." Well, when you don't do your work, you skip school, you don't wake up on time, yes, people are gonna start saying, "Listen, I'm gonna take over because you're not doing the things that you're supposed to do."
Right. And then the control really ramps up.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: And so I, I constantly was telling kids, "I don't like someone controlling me either, but the best way to get people to not control you is to control yourself."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: And when you're controlling yourself, people aren't trying to control you anymore. And you know, and that's just stuff that- Um, when I started my podcast, I, I started it talking to teenagers because I thought I needed so much of this information, and I don't know if I would've listened to it.
I wish I could go back and try it and see if it would've worked. But, um, I just thought, I'm talking to my 15-year-old self saying, "Listen, don't do these things. Try this. Do the... You know, like, these- Mm-hmm ... this is the way to do it. Don't do it this way." And, um, I, and I don't know, I, I would love to know how many teens might have listened and been like, "Oh, I think I'll try to do something different than what I'm, than what I'm doing."
But, um, I think that was probably part of my healing too, is just saying all the stuff out loud and talking just into a microphone about all the things that I wish kids knew, and it was also healing my former self too.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, um, I would imagine that, um, you know, kids' first response would be, "Well, you're a grown-up.
You're, like, put together. You know, you look like," what they would expect, you know, an adult who has their shit together to look like. Mm-hmm. And then to hear you share some of the things that are relatable for them, like some things that you did, you know, share some of those stories, to what extent I don't know, but, um, I, I would imagine that that's a unique experience for them because I don't think, like, parents themselves are that willing to say, "Oh, when I was your age, you know, these are all the things that I did."
I mean, I say it now around my kids and they think it's funny, but I would never, you know, when they were going through their teenage years and, you know, we were trying to work through some of the typical teen things, never would've told them then all the things that I did.
Cynthia Coufal: Well, and I think that's probably good, and I kind of did a mix of both when I was raising my kids.
It kind of... I mean, for me, I kind of get a feeling of what's gonna help and what's too far. I mean, I don't- Mm-hmm ... I don't think I usually- I mean, maybe once in a while. There was a time where I was like, "Oh, that probably wasn't a good thing." But, um, but yeah, I think kids did relate to that because they were like, "Oh, you know, I, I am not just the, my, my mistakes."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: Because I think that that tripped me up for so long is I just kept thinking, "Well, I must be bad 'cause I just keep doing these things."
Toby Myles: Right.
Cynthia Coufal: And I didn't realize that it, you know, it ha- there were so many other factors involved in it. And with my own kids, um, I didn't tell them all the details, but I would say, "Listen, I made some mistakes here, and I...
in, in this particular thing." Like, well, being promiscuous, and it, you know, it just went along with drinking and smoking and all this stuff. Mm-hmm. And, you know, when I had a, a daughter, I was like, "Oh, no. I do not want to go through that." Like, "What am I gonna do? And she's probably gonna be like me. Oh, no." And I just remember I thought, and I've always felt this way, that education is prevention, and I feel like if you educate your kids from the very beginning...
Um, and I made it pretty neutral. I, I mean, like, I, I talked about the body parts as they really are- Haley was always involved with, I mean, any- anything that was going on, I tried to get her involved if I wanted her to know that particular thing. And I remember, um, when she went to high school, she kept crying all the time after school, and I would say, "Haley, why are you crying all the time?"
And she was like, "Kids are having sex." And I was like, "Haley, if you cry every time kids have sex in high school- ... you're gonna cry every day." I said, "Just stop worrying." And it was so funny because she was so the opposite of- Mm-hmm ... because I, I had taught her all this stuff, and so then she was like, "Oh, well these kids shouldn't be doing this.
What is happening?" And I'm just like, "Yeah, they should not be doing it, but, you know, they're gonna make their own choices, and you do your own thing." And-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Cynthia Coufal: and so I, it ended up that she, she waited as long as I would have liked her to, and I'm, you know, I, I was so glad because she could have... But I think it was because I was so open with her, and I let her be her, and I let her talk about things that my parents would have never let me talk about.
Yeah. Because that wasn't... I mean, they would have always turned it to, "Oh, well that's not right," or, you know, "You need to read the Bible so that you don't think that-" Mm-hmm ... "or say that," or whatever. And I didn't ever use that in that way, and so I felt like, um... And I have a son too, who's a stepson, that I raised the whole time, and I remember, um, teaching him, and I think it was a little bit ahead of time, 'cause I think it's more of the way people are parenting now.
But I knew how I had been abused and used by boys and men. Mm-hmm. And by telling him when he was starting to go in the dating r- relationships, I said, "If you don't like a girl, then don't tell her that you love her. Don't tell-" Mm-hmm ... "her certain things so that you can have sex with her, because that's what boys like to do."
And I'm- Yeah ...
Toby Myles: you
Cynthia Coufal: know, I don't know. I'm s- sure girls probably do these things too, but I said, "I, I don't want you to be that kind of boy. If, if you really want to be with somebody, then that's one thing."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. "
Cynthia Coufal: But if you just want to see how many people you can be with and how many lies you can tell in order to get it," I said, "don't ever do that."
Yeah. "It's just too hurtful and you shouldn't, you know, I don't want you to be that kind of person." Mm-hmm. And when he was about 18 or 19, we went somewhere, and he said, "Mom, you have totally ruined my young guy game."
Toby Myles: And I was like, "Like, all my friends can get all these women." Oh, my gosh.
Cynthia Coufal: And he said, "And I have to like them, and I don't."
So
Toby Myles: then I, you know- Oh, gosh ...
Cynthia Coufal: and, and he said, "I could have been with so many people." I'm like, "Well, I'm glad that you're nice." Yes. And he still, you know, he's, he still has, he doesn't cheat. You know, if he doesn't like someone, he'll break up and-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Cynthia Coufal: move on, but he doesn't do all that stuff. And I just think it was, it was my wounded self saying, "Please don't do this to other people.
Like, don't, don't hurt people." Yeah. And I didn't tell him probably, "Hey, this happened to me," and I don't- You know, want you to be like that. But it was just, it was really coming from the heart of, you know, don't, don't lie to people. Just- Yeah ... you know, if you really like them, great. Mm-hmm. And I'm not... But if you don't, then just let them be.
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah. I think that, you know, s- parents tend to say, "Oh, that's just kids being kids," right? But no, that's the time when you teach them how to be good human beings. I remember my son dated a girl in high school, and, um, she was sweet. You know, she was a nice girl. Um, but she was very social, really just wanted to hang out at the mall, and, you know, I d- I, I thought, "This is just, you know, high school romance.
It's not gonna go very far." But I worried that my son was gonna get his heart broken, because I thought, like, he was more into her than she was into him. And when they broke up, I was like, "Oh, gosh, he's gonna be so bummed." But it turned out that he broke up with her because he was like, "All she ever wants to do is hang out at the mall with her friends."
He's like, "We never talk about anything, you know? We never... She doesn't read books." And I was like, "Oh, okay."
Cynthia Coufal: Yes. It's so great when they, they, they figure it out.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: And it's all the stuff that you've taught them.
Toby Myles: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: I
Toby Myles: love all that. So it sinks in. It sinks in. Mm-hmm. Sometimes you don't know whether it's sinking in until-
Cynthia Coufal: Mm-hmm
Toby Myles: much later. So-
Cynthia Coufal: Yes ...
Toby Myles: um, so I would love just for you to share a little bit about, um, how people can work with you, where they can find you, um, uh, online, because I just think this is such a relevant conversation. I know that, um, times are, are different now. Uh, the world is a very different place now, and I feel like our kids have so many more things, um, that they have to negotiate and navigate than we did when we were teenagers.
Yes. And, um, you know, I just don't know, um- If there are enough resources and enough people that, that do what you do that have this understanding of, of what it's like. So I would love for you to share, like, how you work with people and where people can find you.
Cynthia Coufal: Um, well I have a podcast called The Teen Anxiety Maze, and I have a YouTube channel, and I just have called it Cynthia Coufal Coaching because I put a few other things on there besides my podcast, but my podcast is also on there.
And, um, I'm on social media. I'm, you know, s- Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. I, I don't do a lot all the time on all of them, but I do stuff on all of them, um, mostly regularly. And so all of that, if you just went to @cynthiaCoufalcoaching, the, uh,
I- I've looked on Google before and practically everything that I'm on just comes up and online- Okay ... so you'd be able to find all of that. And so then, like, emailing me is on there. I have a website and it's, um, my website you can get to it by going to cynthiaCoufalcoaching.com. Um, that goes to my website, but it always switches over and this is like a tech thing that I haven't fixed that I need to fix.
But I, my podcast was originally called Better Regulate Than Never because it was about kids regulating their emotions.
Toby Myles: Mm.
Cynthia Coufal: And, um, people didn't understand what better regulate than never meant, and so then I wasn't getting people in because people would see that name and it doesn't mean anything, so then they wouldn't pick it because they don't know what they're supposed to get.
So The Teen Anxiety Maze, people understand teen anxiety, and so I still use the same regulation techniques, but I'm mostly talking about anxiety. And I'm starting to work with kids who are transitioning into college because that, that time when you leave your home that where someone has kind of told you what to do most of the time for 18 years and then you go to having complete freedom is huge.
Yeah. And most kids get overwhelmed at some point. Now some make it through and figure it out, well probably more than most figure it out, but there's a lot of trial and error and a lot of suffering that goes on while they're figuring that out. Mm-hmm. And I feel like, um, I can come in and help them to see where these, these problems are and they can start working on them way before they go through all the suffering that, that happens.
Yeah. So those are kind of the two things that I do, but I do work with the young person one-to-one- And the parents are obviously part of the picture, even if it's a college student. Um, parents aren't, aren't as involved in it with a college student as they are with a minor. Mm-hmm. But, and so they get like summaries and like I talk about here's what we're working on or here's what they wanna work on.
I do go with what the child wants to work on, not what the parent wants them to work on.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: Um, but luckily, whatever the kid wants to work on, a lot of times that ends up fixing the things that the parents wanted to change too.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: It's just that we have to meet the kids where they are. We can't say- Yeah
"Hey, you're, you have a problem with this and you need to get this worked out," because that's the part that turns them off.
Toby Myles: Right.
Cynthia Coufal: And, and so it is sometimes hard for parents to wait for their thing to get fixed. Um, but when I'm meeting them where they are and what they wanna work on, those other things
Well, 'cause they just start feeling better about themselves. I don't talk about, like I don't say that I create confidence or help people with confidence, but every kid has told me in their exit time, like 'cause I do like a little exit interview when they leave my, uh, services, and they all say, "I am so much more confident."
Mm-hmm. And it just comes from that self-awareness. When you know- Yeah ... what you're good at and what's good about you and what things you can use in your life for, you know, work or relationships or whatever, um, you just feel more confident in your own decision-making and who you are and- what you wanna do.
And so that, so I'm working one-to-one with people, um, and then the, like this, I haven't tried to do anything with group yet, but I think that's probably where I'm going at some point once I kind of get some things really figured out. But right now with one-to-one, everything is tailored s- very specifically to your child.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Coufal: You know? It's everything about exactly what do they need. I have the same kind of processes that I do, but it is working on the goals that they are setting for themselves and the things that they wanna do, uh, in, in the world, and also just helping them to see how their strengths and their, the values and the things that they want and, and like and are good at can play into all those things that they want and into that goal-setting.
Toby Myles: Yeah. That's amazing. It's like reverse engineering, right? And then-
Cynthia Coufal: Mm-hmm ...
Toby Myles: and then like you said, then the parents are usually happy in the end because- Mm-hmm ... th- through this other path, the things- Yeah ... they were concerned about also get resolved, too, so.
Cynthia Coufal: Yes.
Toby Myles: Yes. Yeah.
Cynthia Coufal: Definitely.
Toby Myles: Yeah. That's amazing. Well, this has been so much fun.
I feel like we could keep going, continuing, and- Oh,
Cynthia Coufal: yes ...
Toby Myles: maybe when you get that, um, group aspect- Yeah ... um, up and running we'll come back and we'll have another conversation. But, um- Yeah ... I so appreciate you sharing, um, your story and, you know, I know that, um, probably there was a time when that rebellious Cynthia maybe you would've been embarrassed to share people, but it's so much of who you are and so much of why you're so good at what you do now, so I think it's really important for people to hear it.
So thank you for sharing that with me and with our audience and, um- Sure ... I appreciate you and your time.
Cynthia Coufal: Oh, yes. Well, thank you for letting me. It was fun.