Chrissy Liu shares her nonlinear journey from law and healthcare to jewelry design and now becoming a debut author, and how she learned to release old identities to step into a more aligned life.
Check Out These Highlights:
Chrissy Liu’s path is anything but traditional, and that’s exactly what makes her story so powerful. From working as a lawyer to transitioning into healthcare administration, then building a career in jewelry design, and now stepping into authorship, Chrissy opens up about what it really looks like to evolve across multiple chapters of life.
In this episode, she shares the internal struggles that come with outgrowing identities that once felt “safe,” and the courage it takes to walk away from paths that no longer align. She talks about navigating uncertainty, trusting your intuition even when it doesn’t make logical sense, and permitting yourself to start over, more than once.
If you’ve ever felt pulled in a new direction but questioned whether you’re “allowed” to change, this conversation will remind you that reinvention isn’t failure, it’s growth.
About Chrissy Liu:
Chrissy Liu is a former lawyer, healthcare administrator, and jewelry designer turned debut author, whose work explores identity, reinvention, and the courage to embrace new chapters.
Connect with Chrissy:
🌐 Website: https://chrissyliu.com/
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chrissycliu
💬 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/chrissy.cianflone
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About Me: https://tobymyles.com/about/
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Toby Myles: Hey Chrissy, welcome to the podcast.
Chrissy Liu: Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Toby Myles: Uh, I'm excited to have you. I was thinking about this this morning about how long we've known each other and for our listeners, I'm doing air quotes 'cause we've never met in person. But I, we've, we have known of each other for many years, and I wanna say at this point at least, well, I've had my business for seven years, which means I let go of my jewelry business.
Prior to that, so it's at least seven years and maybe even longer that, um, I first start following you online when you had your jewelry business. Is that, does that sound about right?
Chrissy Liu: Yeah. Seven years does sound about right.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And so, um. So we know each other or are aware of each other from having jewelry businesses around the same time.
And um, last week was the first time we ever actually like, hopped on a call and just talked. It was so much fun. I remember thinking at the time like, ah, we should have recorded this. This would've been a great podcast episode we talked about. It
Chrissy Liu: was a great conversation. It
Toby Myles: was a great conversation
Chrissy Liu: like said, especially where we've been online following each other.
And it's so funny when you finally get that opportunity to actually have a real life conversation with someone.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: You been friends with online for a while.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I know. So it was, it was super fun, but we didn't hit record and so here we are now. So I'm still excited for this. So, um, I'm first reached out to you because I saw a post on Instagram where you were talking about your book that's coming out soon.
We're recording this, um, mid-March. Um. As of this recording, you're in the final stages of, of the books, which is so exciting. Um, I can't actually wait to read it. Um, but you were posting about the book and I was like, wow, this sounds amazing. And I had no idea that you had moved on from previous things or even like before your jewelry business.
I didn't know any of that. And so I was like, I think we need to have a conversation. I think you'd be a great guest for, um, podcasts. So I would love for you to take us back to, uh. A point in time, or maybe for some people it's more than one moment where you really feel like kinda started you on the path that you're on right now.
Chrissy Liu: Sure. So it might have definitely been several moments, right? I think the first moment for me that I can go back and recall, and I was thinking about this when I was writing my memoir, was when I was set to start college. Growing up I always thought I was gonna be a doctor. My dad was in the healthcare field.
I had done science fairs, and I was just a big science nerd. And a couple of weeks before I was supposed to start college. I was like, I, I don't actually wanna be a doctor. Like I don't think I really wanna do this. And of course my parents were just in shock, what are you gonna do? And I said, I'll figure it out.
Because going to college undeclared was not an option in my house. So I literally took the course book because it was the nineties and we had books and Right. I flipped and I just closed my eyes and pointed and I thought, well, wherever I land is gonna be my major.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: Uh, you know, thank God it wasn't something like.
Calculus or engineering be totally screwed. But I landed on philosophy and I said, okay, I'm gonna be a philosophy major. And my dad said, that's unemployment. What are you gonna do with that? Oh, you can go to law school. And my mom said to me, you kind of argue like Judge Judy, so I, I think you should be a lawyer.
And so that was it. I went to law school and I didn't really have a lot of. Thought about whether or not that's really what I wanted to do. Mm-hmm. But I was a decent writer and I could public speak and didn't have a problem, so I thought, sure, I'll try it. I loved law school. I actually really liked it. It was super interesting.
Studying for the bar was fun practicing. Terrible, terrible, nothing like I had imagined. And. I quickly shifted after about a year and started working in healthcare, and so I made my way back into healthcare, but just in a completely different role than I had imagined and spent nearly 15 years in healthcare until I had my daughter just shy of 40.
And then another transition came. So for me, I feel like there are these moments in time where I've done something. It's been great. And then I have this, I have to move on because it's not fulfilling me in the way that mm-hmm. It once was.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Yeah. You, um, you have a, a quote I quoted you on this, um, that reinvention is your superpower, and that really hits home for me because I very much have had.
Not a similar path, but have done similar things. I have just done something until it felt like it was time to do something else, and to me, I think things are. Connected in a way, like they feel connected to me even though they're vastly different, but to other people. Um, my last boss said, oh, I love how you keep reinventing yourself.
And it took me by surprise. And I'm like, really? Is that what I'm doing? Like, I don't think so. I think like, this is just the next thing I'm supposed to do. So, um, so like, how do you feel about that? I mean, do you, have you felt like each time it's so vastly different that you're just like starting over?
Chrissy Liu: Yes. I feel like I am starting over and I also feel. In some way guilty, right? Mm-hmm. I grew up in a family of immigrants. Mm-hmm. And. Education was the key to everything. It was just, you're going to go to school and you're going to have this career and you're going to do things in a way that provides stability and security and all of the things that my grandparents came from Italy looking for.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And I broke that mold and. My parents had both passed away, but when they were alive and I was going through these transitions, you know, they would make these comments or you know, I could tell my mom. T till the day she died, always wrote a letter or addressed something to me, Esquire, I was like, I have not practiced law in so long.
Mm-hmm. Like she could tell everyone, oh, my daughter's a lawyer.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: So for me, you know, it is this, this idea that I am craving something else.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: But I also feel how I was raised. Right. Provides this like. Am am I doing the right thing? Am and yeah. What if, what if I don't succeed? And, and oh my goodness, that embarrassment and that Gen X, you know, we don't, we don't, we don't talk about our feelings, so we just kind of go for it and mm-hmm.
Hope for the best. And so it's, it's, it's a lot of feelings all at once, but every time I do it, I just know that it's the right thing to do.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's interesting because. For me, on the flip side, I think, like, I don't think of it as starting over and maybe some of the things I've done are more closely related.
Um, but I do think that there is, there can be a stigma when you, um, change gears, especially if it's very different that, oh, you just couldn't cut it, right? Like, you just, you failed at the previous thing and that's why you're doing something new. And for you, that was, I mean, aside from deciding that you hated practicing law mm-hmm.
Um. You know, your career that followed 15 years in the healthcare industry, that wasn't a failure by any means.
Chrissy Liu: No. But for me, walking away somewhat felt like a failure. Right? Yeah. And, and I think that question that people ask when they ask about my history or I have conversations and, and it's. Oh, you've done so many things and you keep doing something new.
And for me it's always this, is there an underlying judgment there? Is it that judgment of Yeah. Oh, you, you couldn't, yeah, there was something going on and you couldn't hack it or you, it got too hard so you left. Um, and so what does that look like and, and why do we. Feel the need to be pigeonholed into one thing, like
Toby Myles: mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: I, I think that's what has been so exciting about doing something completely different every time is mm-hmm. That for me, I mean, jewelry is in no way related to hospital administration.
Toby Myles: Right.
Chrissy Liu: Not even close. Right.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: One could argue that writing a book, well, okay, I, I have some, you know, law school trained me how to write in some ways and, but they're still vastly different.
Yeah. Every time for me, I am excited, but I am also trying to squash that little inner voice or that potential judgment from others. Mm-hmm. That is like, well, what are you doing? Like, what?
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. For when I left my last job, um, the thing that really put me over the edge was I had gotten a promotion.
I had already given my boss notice, like. It's time for me to do something else. I wanted to start my copywriting business. I had my jewelry business as a side hustle for many years, but I wanted to, to start my copywriting business. And, you know, all of a sudden it was like, oh, this promotion that they had been dangling in front of me for years where they're like, oh, don't, don't leave yet.
Let's see if we can make something happen. Which they did, but it was a terrible fit for me and it had me, um, working reporting to a different manager who was a micromanager. And it was, it was. Horrible. It was a really bad fit to the point where it was taking its toll on me, like physically and emotionally.
And so when I left I was like flat out like, yeah, I am quitting 'cause this is hard. And I, and actually don't wanna do it anymore. Like I really don't. Right? Um, still no regrets. You know, even on the hardest days, um, in my business, I still have zero regrets. So for me, um, that idea of starting over. It didn't, I think that it hasn't occurred to me, and that's doesn't mean that I haven't started over.
It just means that maybe I look at it through a different lens. Right. Um, but, but since you mentioned how vastly different jewelry, a jewelry business is to being in the healthcare industry, I would love for you to share with us, like, how did that actually happen? Because from what I know from your story, like you moved pretty quickly to like.
A class to like, I have a business.
Chrissy Liu: Yes. Um, so, uh, mediocrity is not my thing. I go ba like I'm, if I'm gonna do it, I'm going all in. Mm-hmm. That's just sort of the nature of my type A personality. I had worked in oncology for many years and I had worked in major cancer centers across the country. Um, GW and DC Duke and the Fred Hutchins, Seattle, and.
I was working at the Fred Hutchins Seattle, and I was pregnant and again, close to 40. I had already lost my father at this time. I had lost grandparents to cancer, aunts and uncles to cancer. I mean, it's just a, a lot of, I had been around a lot of suffering and death with cancer.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And running a brain tumor center when the majority of patients have glioblastoma and are not going to survive.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: Is. Taxing. It was hard on the staff. It was hard on the providers. It was hard on me as the administrator. And there was one patient who was in his thirties who had a young child, um, about three years old, four years old, and he had glioblastoma. And I would see him come into the clinic and here I was pregnant and.
Then the anxiety hit. I mean, it just, I think I probably never truly processed all of my grief appropriately. I just dove into work and then here I am watching this family being ripped apart.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And about to have a family of my own. And I said to my husband, I don't, I don't think I can do this. Every ache and pain I had, it was like, oh my gosh, what's wrong?
What's wrong? What's wrong?
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And I was driving myself and no doubt him crazy.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And so when I had my daughter, I said, I'm gonna take my maternity leave and then I will figure it out. What am I gonna do after that?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And after the three months, I said, I'm, I'm not going back. I can't, I can't do this.
And so then I said, I'll stay at home. Hmm. That type A personality, I mean
Toby Myles: that less than five minutes,
Chrissy Liu: less than, I mean, it was, it was, it was, it was rough. If I had watched one more episode of Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, I thought it would move my mind. And in Seattle, it's a very big arts community, and there was, um.
Bead shop that was actually catty corner from our like house in our neighborhood. And so one day I was like, I'm gonna go take a, make an earrings class.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: So I went and I beaded some earrings and, and one of the women said to me, oh, that's a cool design. She said, if you really wanna do this, you should take a metalsmithing class.
It's so much more fun. So I went home, found a metalsmithing school that was five minutes from my house, and I said to my husband, I'm signing up this weekend, and he travels for work. So I said, block this weekend. I'm going, I'm gonna take it. And so he was traveling before my class started. He brought me back a turquoise kaison and said, oh, here for your class.
And I made my first piece and it was a sterling silver pendant with turquoise that I bezel set, and that was it. I was in love. I said, mm-hmm this is so much fun. And a couple of months later I formed my LLC, and then a couple months after that I was showing my stuff in New York City. And it just snowballed from there.
It was, mm-hmm. The best five years. I had so much fun. I learned so much. I was self-taught mostly. And I took any class I could take and yeah, it just, um. As a lever of fashion and jewelry to be able to make your own stuff is pretty cool.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty cool. And, um, you know, as you know too, um, you didn't just learn about metalsmithing.
You learned how to run a business, like all the other things that you don't realize you're going to have to learn when it comes to. Of opening your business.
Chrissy Liu: And that, I think was the best part of my journey, right? Is that I, you know, I had always dabbled in things here and there. Oh, I did furniture refinishing, or, oh, I took a, you know, reupholstering class here and there and, you know, I just always had some desire to do things with my hands.
Mm-hmm. But I never really was encouraged or had opportunities as, as a kid to do that because it was. Well, you're gonna, the sciences you're gonna study, you know? Yeah. Real subjects.
Toby Myles: Right, right.
Chrissy Liu: You're not gonna be an artist really like that. No. So, um, so when I was able to just play and learn, it opened up this.
You know, creative side and then having had my previous career, my previous life, it was the perfect balance of right and left brain. Mm-hmm.
Toby Myles: It was
Chrissy Liu: the, the, the most fun of being able to figure out how can I grow this business and
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: You know, what, what do I need to do to actually not be in the red? And I wasn't in the red ever.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: Which was great.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. I think that that is one of the things that, um. Creatives who have businesses often struggle with is that they don't love the business side of things. Right. And, and they tend to struggle for a long time because. They think that they're the ones that have to do it all. And for some people, like I'm very much like you.
I loved the marketing and business side of things just as much I still do in my business now. Um, but for, for other people, if they don't get help to kind of like manage that side of it, um, you know, sometimes it can really take a toll on their business because now they're not doing the thing that they love, that they thought they were getting into business to do, which is to make the things.
Chrissy Liu: You know, it's really interesting you say that. I came across very early on one of the first shows I did, um, I met a fellow jeweler and she is a lovely woman and a woman who I have stayed in touch with over the years.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And we were very different spots in her, in our journey. Right. She had been doing this for a living for a long time.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And I am, you know, I'm a newbie. I am so fresh in this. And she came over to my booth and she looked at me and she said, oh, your stuff is so expensive. And I thought, oh, you know, the doubts are like, oh, goodness. Yeah. And she said, I make a similar earring, and mine is significantly less expensive than your selling yours for.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And I said, have you sold any of this show? And she said, no. And I said, I've sold two. And for me it was this idea that I was going to mark my work at the value that I felt for its artistry, for the skill, for, for all of the things. Right? So, so that it wasn't a piece that like you, oh, I could go to Target and buy a $20 pair of earrings and, and years later I saw her at another show.
I was done by this point and she was, she had this beautiful ring. It was so intricate and so well done. And I, and I looked at her and I said, that's too cheap. Mm-hmm. And she was like, no, it's not. I said, it's too cheap. Do up that price. I said, yeah, just, just test it for a few hours and see if someone buys it at the higher price.
Mm-hmm. And if you don't feel comfortable, lower it back down tomorrow.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And sure enough, later that night I got a text message, oh my God, I love you. It's sold. I, and I said it. So I think there is a lot of work that artists could do to understand the value proposition that they bring, you know? Yeah.
They bring this, uh, this ability to take. Raw materials and create something that is a connection piece between humans.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And they don't price for that. Right. Because they, they price thinking, oh, I just, I need to sell it. I need to sell it.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And in all reality, that might just cover the cost of your materials and, and
Toby Myles: Exactly.
Chrissy Liu: Maybe, maybe you're getting like a portion of labor costs.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Maybe.
Chrissy Liu: Maybe. Yeah.
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's, I think that is a big thing that artists struggle with. Right. And I, I find it interesting when I had my jewelry business, I remember someone left a comment on a, a specific piece. Someone who had never been a customer of, customer of mine, had only ever looked at my work online, um, said something was.
Too expensive for what you get. And I thought, how do you know what you get? Like you don't have this piece, you can't hold it in your hand. And you know, and, and so it just is a reminder that people who don't make things with their two hands don't understand all the things that go into making that piece.
And that doesn't even account for materials and perceived value and all those things. So it's, it can be difficult. Um, and thus the term starving artist, I think.
Chrissy Liu: Absolutely. And I found, you know, one of the things I miss the most about my business is shows, you know? Yeah. I would do art shows and I would be at my booth slogging away for three days.
Mm-hmm. You know, in the heat and in, in Colorado, you know, one day it's beautiful summer weather and the next thing you know, it's snowing or you're getting thunderstorms.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And, you know, people would come by and just the connection, the ability to describe why a design was the way it was. Because, mm-hmm.
I didn't, I never really just, I didn't sketch anything out. I just sat down and had a feeling in mind, you know? Mm-hmm. When. RBG passed away. I was, I was struck, you know? Mm-hmm. As, as a former lawyer and woman who had gone through law school and, and watching her career. And so one day I just sat down and I created a, a collar necklace with diamonds and silver and gold.
You know, it just because that's how I was feeling.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And so the ability to be able to just talk to people and tell them the story behind things mm-hmm. Create that connection. To me was the best part about it because then it became less about, well, but you know, what am I getting for this?
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And it was more about the story behind it and what it represented and the meaning right.
I had when I created it, and whether that was something that. Resonated with.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And that ended up buying it.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's so true. It's hard with so much shopping happening online, it's hard, even if you write really good descriptions. Um, and I know you have a funny story about writing descriptions, right.
But, um, even with the best of, you know, description writing, that was one of the first things I did. Early on in my copywriting business, 'cause I knew a lot of jewelry designers and they had me write their copy and I wrote, oh my God, I must have wrote thousands of, of product descriptions and really wasn't my favorite thing.
I mean, I think I was good at it, but I didn't love to do it. Um, but as I'm saying this, I'm remembering, uh, your story about. Product description.
Chrissy Liu: So, um, I, you know, I'm, you were good at it. I was horrifically terrible. Let's just, I mean, I was so bad. So when I started initially decided I'm gonna go for this business, I did an Etsy shop for about two months.
Mm-hmm. And then I realized, well, this is. Not smart. If Etsy goes away, or if Etsy deprioritizes where I fall in the search queue, no one's gonna find my stuff. I need my own website.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: So I built my own website and I slog through Wix and I was trying to figure this thing out. And going to law school, it beats any bit of creativity you have out of your writing.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: Your first year, one of the, one of the first lessons you learn is. Forget everything you knew about writing Uhhuh, and this is how you have to write. It has to be very fact-based, very boring. Um, every word on the page has to to matter. And so no, nothing superfluous, which you kind of want superfluous when you're describing you wanna create this image and I would, so my descriptions would be like, this is a sterling silver ring that has a diamond set, an 18 Kara Gold, and it is a size seven.
And so I was working with this wonderful guy, Sohil, um, as he helps a lot of jewelry designers. With their websites. And so I was a couple years in, I was redesigning and going to Shopify. And so at one point he said to me, who wrote these? And I said, oh, I did. And he goes, oh, they are awful. Like no one is gonna wanna buy your jewelry if you're just literally telling them it's a sterling ring with a diamond on it.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: What am I supposed to do? And he, he's, you're supposed to, you know, set the tone and create this image of where they can wear it so they can picture it at I'm out. I can't do that. So I give you all the credit for doing that for jewelers because I struggled big time.
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah. For me it was, each one was like a little story, and I very much approached it that way, which is, I'm a storytelling coach, I mean a co copywriter, but every, um, everything I approach is, is story-based and it always has been.
And so that was, that would be how I would approach each one was kinda like a little mini story and, mm-hmm. And yeah. So, um, so. We're talking about writing and how you were bad at, um, the descriptions, product descriptions, which most pe most jewelry designers. I think that's one of the things I struggle with.
Um, so I actually do wanna talk about your book, but I don't wanna skip over the part where you decided that, um, it was time to close your jewelry business.
Chrissy Liu: Sure. So I'd been five years in and I was having nagging shoulder issues. Mm-hmm. I played tennis my entire childhood, adolescence in college. I was a competitive tennis player, and, uh, repetitive motion had, um, taken its toll on my body.
I had severe tendonitis in my shoulder. And in my bicep tendon. And over the years, yoga exacerbated that. And then I started making jewelry and I handcrafted every piece. So I am sawing and hammering and the physical toll that it took on my body, it got to the point where I had received a few cortisone shots.
I was seeing an orthopedic surgeon regularly, and she said, you, you need surgery?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And so I decided as I am nearing 50, right, that I. I don't want to live in chronic pain for my life.
Toby Myles: Yeah. It
Chrissy Liu: was a, it was a pretty significant surgery. I had arthroscopic on my shoulder, but then also tendon surgery on my bicep, and so I said, I'm, I'm done.
Like,
Toby Myles: yeah,
Chrissy Liu: I had a great five years. This was amazing, but I'm gonna go back into healthcare. That was what I was thinking at some point.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And I. Closed my business was doing pt, and then perimenopause, frozen shoulder came. And it really just reminded me like, okay, this is the right decision.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: For me because my body just couldn't take that, that level of repetitive motion.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And so then I went back into healthcare and worked for two healthcare organizations for a year and something was missing and I just, I, I struggled because. I left the field seven at that point, seven some years ago, and I couldn't get a job.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: I really struggled. It was, oh, you had time off. And I was applying for jobs that I had had early on in my career. Mm-hmm. I was applying for manager level jobs when I had been a director in my mid twenties. So it had been a long time since I had been sort of that level and I, I couldn't even get an interview.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And I kept saying to my husband. This is so unfair for women. You know, we take this time off, we have families, and then we get mm-hmm. Penalized for it.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And I was angry and I was, I mean, it was, it was, it was hard. It was a really hard transition for me. And so I ended up going back in and I, I just, I was, I was missing something.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And so I had this, so at least I mentioned both of my parents had passed away and. I had a friend who had talked to a medium, and she was, she had also lost both parents, and she was telling me what an amazing experience it was, and I thought, I'm gonna do this.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Like,
Chrissy Liu: it's, it's been, my dad's been gone so long, he never met my husband.
He didn't see any of these, you know, he, he saw my transition into healthcare, but didn't see the jewelry business, never, you know, my daughter, all these things.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: So I. Book this time with a medium. And I tell my husband, I'm gonna talk to a medium. And he's, what are you? Are you sure? And I said, I don't know.
Don't try to convince me otherwise. Yeah, cancel. Like, I can't, if I think about it too much, I'm gonna like run for the hills, right? So the night before I'm like, sweat, like I'm sweating, right? I wake up early in the morning, I can't, I'm fidgeting and she's in Scotland and we're doing this sort of over, you know, zoom kind of thing.
And so we have this conversation and it is. Amazing. It was the most profound thing I've ever had happen to me in that way. And one of the things that my dad said to me was, you are not doing what you're supposed to be doing. And. You need to find joy again. You need to find that thing that lights you up because you've had so much grief over the years and so much loss, and you're stuck.
Mm-hmm. And you need to let it go. And you need to go after what you wanna do and find that thing that brings you joy.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And. I left that thinking, well now 1:00 AM I, now one. Get a deal.
Toby Myles: Tell me what that thing
Chrissy Liu: is. Yeah. Can you gimme a hint? And, um, you know, and, and he was funny because the, the medium said, oh, he, he's talking about your jewelry and he is talking about creative you were and how beautiful your stuff was and, and, and how much, you know, he admired you for going for it.
And. And shortly after that, a couple weeks after that, things at the company that I was working at just started to not settle right with me. Mm-hmm. And it just wasn't fitting in, it wasn't a right fit. And so I, I left and I thought, okay, now what am I gonna do? My husband and I sat down and we had this whole plan.
He said, okay, you have so many contacts in healthcare, you can reach out to hospitals, you can talk to these docs. You can you. And never once did I have that burning desire to do it. Like there. I just knew deep down that I didn't wanna go back.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: But I've always wanted to write. Mm-hmm. And so I sat down and started just writing, just writing, uh, a story, a fictitious story based on my life.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And I could sit for, I mean, I was just writing, writing, writing. Mm-hmm. And I thought, I don't know what I'm gonna do with this, but I'm gonna get it on paper. Yeah. And I went on Facebook one day. I had been off Facebook for months. I went on and a childhood friend of mine who lives in Portland is a ghost writer and a writing coach.
And the day I logged back on, she had made a post saying, if you ever wanna write a book and you're thinking about writing a book, schedule some time with me and we'll chat. And I thought, what in the
Toby Myles: world? That's weird.
Chrissy Liu: So I texted her. And I said, is it gonna be weird if you get a calendar link in your email?
Says, I'm scheduling time to talk with you because I wanna write a book.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And she immediately texts me back and says, oh my God, we have to talk. And I talked to her and I, and after that I said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna write this book. And that's how I, that's how I landed. Where I am. I, yeah.
Toby Myles: It's just, I, you say it like, yeah, I'm just gonna write this book. Right. And you and I talked about this before, like a lot of people say they're gonna write a book, right? And I don't wanna say not many people do it because I know a lot of people actually do it. But I would be curious to know of the people that say, yeah, I'm gonna write a book, or Oh, I have a book in me, how many people actually do it and get through the whole process?
Right? But, but clearly like. And from other things that you've done. Like when you say you're gonna do something, you actually just do it.
Chrissy Liu: I just do it. And you know, it's really interesting you say that about other people, right. Who, who had this experience and wanna write a book. My dad, uh, was diagnosed with cancer, um, in April and died in July.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And um, it'll be 15 years this in the summer. And he was only 64 when it happened. And he always wanted to write.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And my dad was a very good writer. And when I was growing up. Every paper that I wrote in school was redlined by my dad.
Toby Myles: Oh,
Chrissy Liu: every single paper. My dad had a PhD and a dental degree.
He was very, very bright. But I tell you, growing up, I hated him for it. Every paper I wrote was just, no, no. Oh, fix this, fix this, fix this. This isn't right, this grammar. And so he wanted to write a book. He had a storyboard in his office of a historical fiction book of a patient of his whose family had died in the Holocaust, but the, his patient was, you know, sort of shipped off to the US as a, as a kid and was saved.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And so my dad had this idea to write this historical fiction book about him.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And when the doctor said to him, chemo. That he was out of options. Chemo didn't work. Yeah. One of the, one of the things he said was, I never got to write my book. Oh. And for me, that stuck with me. Yeah. Because I watched this in real time of someone who actually ran out of time.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And I thought. Writing a book is terrifying.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: You know, jewelry out in the world was one thing. It's a tangible item where you could say like, okay, this isn't really my style.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: But someone else will hopefully like it.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: A book to me is just, seems so much more intimate. Right? It is.
Toby Myles: Oh for sure.
Chrissy Liu: Especially a memoir. 'cause I have
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: Bearing it all.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: Terrifying. Right. It, it is absolutely terrifying. Um, but for me, this idea that I was going to tell a story, I wanted to tell it because I felt like I wasn't the only one who would experience these things. Mm-hmm. This idea of belonging and finding your people and grief and loss.
Yeah. And putting up that front, and I think especially for midlife, gen X women who were raised without understanding emotion.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And understanding what it means to actually be vulnerable in that way, because we were just taught to be tough and resilient and suck it up and
Toby Myles: Right.
Chrissy Liu: Um, yeah. That's why I really wanted to just get it out there, and so when I sat down to write it, I think start to finish, it took me about six, seven weeks and I just,
Toby Myles: that's crazy.
Chrissy Liu: Sit down for hours and just, yeah. I treated it as my job, you know? Right. Mm-hmm. This was my, this is my. Get my workout in the morning, my daughter be at school, and I would just right away. Mm-hmm.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: That to me was how I could approach this in a professional way where I felt like, okay, if I'm gonna do this, um, I'm gonna do it.
Yeah. And I could fail spectacularly, but I'm gonna, at least if I do fail spectacularly, I'm gonna do it. Knowing I gave it everything that I had.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's so interesting you say that too because, um, I am working, uh, just finished working with a speaking coach to help me with a keynote talk. And, um, she wrote a book, she started writing before her daughter was born, um, last year, a little over a year ago.
And just, and she just finished the book and she was saying that when she came back to it. She was a different person. Right. And the idea that she had let it go and it span, it had taken her as long as it took her. Which a year to write a book is not long. Like that's pretty common. Right? You're the exception.
But, but she said like it was so hard then when she came back to it because she felt like it didn't really represent her anymore. She had just gone through this huge. Life changing moment and she viewed the world in a different way, right? And so, um, and so if there's ever like a cautionary tale, like be more like Chrissy and write your book in 10 weeks.
Chrissy Liu: I don't, I don't dunno if anyone is ever gonna tell their kids, be like, Chrissy, I don't know. There's, read the book. Maybe you'll think,
Toby Myles: okay, well I'm, I'm telling myself be like, Chrissy, because we talked about this before. I am actually getting ready to start writing a book. Um, the keynote is, is 90% there.
But really I realize like, no, the book actually needs to come first, so. Mm-hmm. Um, so that's like my next big project and I can't promise 10 weeks, but I, but like you, like I will treat it as. Really part of my job, like you should with any big project, right? Like this podcast exists because I decided this is something I really wanted to do and I got support for it.
You know, I have someone to edit and help with the tech. Um, otherwise it wouldn't, it would not have happened 'cause I would've prioritized client work and all these other things instead of getting this podcast out into the world.
Chrissy Liu: And I think that's exactly right. You don't prioritizing it. Mm-hmm. For me, I think in many ways writing was so therapeutic.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: I didn't realize it at the time. Um, but my friend who ended up becoming from my writing coach would say to me, just get it out. Right. Yeah. You are. You are not going to understand how much you're freeing up. By even just putting pen to paper. Mm-hmm. And I will say the first draft of the book, it was fictionalized and I made up a fictionalized daughter.
Mm-hmm. To try to protect myself.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: I finished the first draft and I read it and I said, this is terrible.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: I wouldn't wanna read this. Mm-hmm. And I texted her and I said, I'm scrapping it and I forget it. I'm gonna make it ex, it's gonna be about me. And I'm,
Toby Myles: yeah,
Chrissy Liu: though, I'll change names, I'll change location, you know, things like that.
But mm-hmm. For the most part, I'm not making up a fictionalized version of any of this. If I'm gonna do this, I have to do it. In the way that feels authentic to me. Yeah. And treating it with that care and that grace and that professionalism, right. Of like,
Toby Myles: sure.
Chrissy Liu: This is, this is my next iteration. This is what I'm putting out into the world.
I hope it's not my first and only book. I'm, I'm working on a novel now. Um, but it is, you know, it is the, what I'm putting out into the world and if I'm gonna do it, I'm. I'm gonna go for it.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Ugh. I love that so much. I think that, um, uh, I read in a, I think it's a book called Published, um, that one of the reasons why, um, people get partway through and they don't finish is that.
They write a chapter and then they try to make that chapter perfect, right? Mm-hmm. And that's not the way to get the book done. You gotta go all the way through, get all the shit out there yes. And then go back. Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: That is exactly right. And that's what I'm doing now, right? Mm-hmm. I find myself in this.
In this novel, and I am catching myself, right? Like, oh, I can make this paragraph. Nope, just go on. Mm-hmm. Get it on paper. It's like you almost have to word vomit on paper first. Yeah. Get it out there and edit when it's appropriate to edit.
Toby Myles: Yeah. And,
Chrissy Liu: and I. I really feel like that is a solid point, right?
That people do get paralyzed by that. Well, I have to make this perfect before I can move on and
Toby Myles: mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: You know, I had so many different, the way that I wrote the memoir, it was, you know, when I was talking to my, to my coach, Erin, she would, you know, I come up with this, this theory that I had or an experience that shaped me, and she would say, go write about that.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: Okay, go write about your dad dying. Oh, okay. Go write about your mom dying. Okay. Go write about leaving your career. And none of them were. You know, linear. Like it was
Toby Myles: just
Chrissy Liu: here, there, here, there, and then once I put chapters on paper mm-hmm. Then I could like, oh, okay. This could go here. This could go there.
Mm-hmm. But if I was constrained by trying to follow some, you know, yeah. Outline or something so prescriptively, then I don't think I would've landed where I did because. There were two or three chapters that I ended up adding at the last minute. 'cause I said to my friend, I was like, I, I really wanna touch upon this because this shaped me so much.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: Okay. Go, go write it.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, such good advice. So, um, so the name of the book is Eating Nails for Breakfast, which I, I don't know if. I'm, I'm curious to know where the name came from, first of all, and I wanna know how this playlist helped you, because I was looking at your playlist and I was like, this might be my playlist for when I write my book.
Chrissy Liu: Uh, well, I love that you love that because, um, so the title, so I, one of the chapters I talk about grief, right? I have lost. A lot of people in my life. Mm-hmm. Um, both of my parents in the last 20 years, I've lost both of my parents. Two grandmothers, an uncle, three friends, my dog, my childhood best friend.
Like, it's a lot. It's been a lot of grief. Mm-hmm. And one, uh, one of my aunt's funerals, she passed away a couple weeks before my dad. So my grandmother buried her sister and her son within a few weeks of each other.
Toby Myles: My gosh.
Chrissy Liu: And so I was speaking at my great aunt's funeral and I've been public speaking my whole life.
I think I read my first, you know, mass when I was in first or second grade had been on TV for my old job. So I don't, I don't get nervous speaking, so I
Toby Myles: mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: Got up there. I did my reading and one of my aunts came up to me afterwards and said. Do you eat nails for breakfast? And I, I looked at her, I was like, what?
What the fuck? What? And she said, you show no emotion. You are so tough and so strong. Do you eat nails for breakfast? And I think that just became my mantra, right? Yeah. I was going to. I've, I've often said this to many people in my life. I'm allergic to feelings. I don't wanna feel feelings. I don't, your feelings make me uncomfortable.
Yeah. You're entitled to have them, but I, I don't wanna see it. Like, and so that's where the title came from, you know, it became my armor. Mm-hmm. And I think through writing this book, I uncovered that the armor ended up hurting me. Yeah. Yeah. And the playlist was an interesting. Thing that happened to me because, so I became a voracious reader over the last couple years.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: I think to escape reality. Yeah. And um, I think I, I read over 180 books in the last Wow. Two and a half years.
Toby Myles: Oh my gosh.
Chrissy Liu: And I kind of got sucked into the book talk world. And there's this young artist, Alex Warren, who has this song Ordinary, and that's what. Put him on the map.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: But it, he got put on the map because his song got attached to some book talk reels for a new release that was coming out.
And I was like, oh, I wanna read this book and this song is really good.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: And so then I started to listen to his music.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And he's in his early twenties, mid twenties, maybe he's lost both parents as well. Mm-hmm. And he writes a lot about grief and loss, and I found myself. Feeling feelings that I hadn't felt before just by listening to his music.
Yeah. And so when I was writing, his songs were on, they're always on in the car. We saw him when he came to Denver last year. We're going to see him at Red Rocks in a couple months. Like my daughter loves him.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And so then as I was writing scenes from my childhood, right, if I'm writing about, you know, grade school, like I'd put on new kids on the block, right?
Toby Myles: Yeah. Or
Chrissy Liu: you know, salt and pepper. Like people that were the songs that influenced me. As I was experiencing them, I was like, oh, I went to Dave Matthews concert during this time. I'm gonna put on some Dave. Okay. So that's how my playlist came about.
Toby Myles: Wow. That's very cool. I, it didn't occur to me that it was tied to specific.
Um, parts of what you were writing about, which makes perfect sense, right? Yes.
Chrissy Liu: Yeah. There's some breakup songs in there when I took
Toby Myles: Oh, good.
Chrissy Liu: In thirties. There's some family drama songs in there. You know, there's always family drama, so. Mm-hmm.
Toby Myles: Oh yeah.
Chrissy Liu: It just became, you know, like in, in my way, uh, a nod to just sort of the chapters, my experience, my hometown, you know, growing up.
Mm-hmm. Growing up in Pittsburgh. Um, yeah, so that's, and I. I still like, I listen to it in the car all the time and now my young daughter's like, mom put on this song. I like this one. You know? Um,
Toby Myles: yeah.
Chrissy Liu: Yeah. So
Toby Myles: very cool. So speaking of your daughter, um. If somebody were to ask her like, what her mom does, what would she say?
Chrissy Liu: You know, it's funny you say that. 'cause she just asked me two weeks ago, she goes, mom, are you a writer now? Is is that what I should tell people? You do.
Toby Myles: There you go.
Chrissy Liu: You know? And I said, well, I, I guess so. Yeah, you can tell them that. Yeah. You don't make jewelry anymore and you don't work in hospital anymore.
So Are you a writer? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I guess I'm, yeah. Let's, let's see how that goes.
Toby Myles: It's so, I mean, it's important for kids to be able to like have a simple answer, right?
Chrissy Liu: Yes. And you know, one of the, the funny things about her is that she is sort of steadfast, right? She wants to be an artist. Mm-hmm. She loves to draw.
I went to law school. My husband has PhD, right? So she's, where'd that come from? I grew up and I'm like, Ooh, like what kind of artist? Like, like maybe Pixar. You can have like health insurance. Like, you know, like, she's like, no, I want a booth like you used to have. And I went, okay, okay. You know, so part of me is like going through these, how do I encourage her?
How do I support her? How do I, yeah. The things that are different than, you know, how my parents did it because mm-hmm. Being an art, being an artist was never an option. That was not, yeah. That was
Toby Myles: not, it's not a real job.
Chrissy Liu: No. And even, you know, before my mom, God rest her soul, you know, she died three years ago today.
She, she, uh, even still when I had my jewelry business, she's like, are you gonna go back and get a real job at any point? Are, are you, are you gonna go back and get a real job ever?
Toby Myles: Oh.
Chrissy Liu: Oh my gosh. I think there is that stigma. And so for me Right, you know, wanting to, to show Avery that you don't have to be one thing.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: You know? Yeah. I don't want her to feel like she has to be one thing in her life because we're never just one thing.
Toby Myles: Yeah. No, not at all. I, it's funny because I, um, when I first went to college, um. I was really unsure about what I wanted to do. Right? And so I majored, I was a phys ed major. I wanted to teach special needs kids.
I had a brother that had Down Syndrome and just always loved the community. So that was what I was gonna do. And then I was just like, nah, that's not what I'm gonna do. And so I dropped out and then went back then the following semester, and I think I was in like hotel motel management or something like that.
And I'm not really sure why. Maybe I'd like to go to hotels. Maybe that's why I picked that. Right. But I have. I have always made things and always created things with my hands from a little kid. And it wasn't until after dropping outta school multiple times that my older sister said, Hey, there's this art school and maybe you should just go take a few classes while you're working.
Um, and that really kind of like. Put me on that path and eventually I got my degree and I was a graphic designer, so you could tell your daughter, like she could be a graphic designer and she can be an artist, but like, that's like people get paid good money in healthcare and everything.
Chrissy Liu: Right? And that's what we're trying to teach her, right?
Mm-hmm. If she wants to have a booth someday and you know mm-hmm. And a single and sell paintings, that's what she wants to do.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: By trying to tell her that art is this broad. You know, definition. Mm-hmm. So I would say to her, I am an artist as a jewelry designer. Mm-hmm. Like that's art, you know? Yeah.
People who are in movies, that's their art. They are artists at their craft. Sure. And so trying to at her age, get her to understand that it is more than colored pencils and
Toby Myles: yeah.
Chrissy Liu: Her. Which is the medium of choice for her, which she loves.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: But just so she can understand, hey, there are options out there and I want to explore.
So we've put her in clay making classes and, you know, um, stop motion classes and, you know, anything we can think of mm-hmm That's not related so that she at least gets exposure. So she sees there are many avenues for her to pursue. Hopefully some of them that come with like benefits and
Toby Myles: all that. Yeah, I know.
I know.
Chrissy Liu: Um, but, you know, that's, that's her life and I want to support her in whatever she wants to do. That fills her soul.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. And also, you know, she's, she's so young that it's, it's so fun to watch. Kids at that age, just, they just have the natural, the things that they're naturally drawn to, right?
Mm-hmm. Before it, the world beats them out of like the, you know what I mean? Like, before the world says, no, you gotta like fit in this box. So at that age, it's so fun to watch them explore these things that they're interested in.
Chrissy Liu: Yeah. And the fitting in the box is something that I was very big on when, even when I was pregnant, you know, I said, don't get her anything pink.
Don't. Mm-hmm. Don't, don't, yes. Try to put her in a box.
Toby Myles: Oh yeah.
Chrissy Liu: That she doesn't. Necessarily want to go in. Yeah. She has the choice.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: To go in, I could look back at pictures and I had that, you know, those foam rollers you would like sleep in and then you look like, you know, Shirley Temple and the
Toby Myles: Uhhuh
Chrissy Liu: Frilly and the monogram.
I mean, Hmm.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: I had no choice in the matter. Yeah. And so I let her choose, what do you wanna wear? Oh, you wanna wear Pokemon?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: Okay, let's wear Pokemon. Because I want her to choose what makes her feel good and not look back on pictures and be like, what the hell did my mom?
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Chrissy Liu: Trust me.
Toby Myles: Yes.
Chrissy Liu: And why am I forced to fit into this square?
Toby Myles: Exactly.
Chrissy Liu: Doesn't make sense.
Toby Myles: Exactly. I remember my daughter, she was maybe a little older than yours at the time, maybe first grade, and she wanted to cut her hair short. She had long hair and she wanted to chop it off. And I was just like, oh, are you sure? Like, I don't know. And she, for like a couple years, she kept saying it and finally was like.
Okay. And, and we did it and she had it short for a while and then grew it back long. And then as an adult, she's, you know, she's somebody that's just like, oh, I just wanna have short hair now. And she'll just do it and she won't cry over it like I would, you know, like, oh, my hair whi my hair. Right, right. Um, but.
But along those same lines of pink, I, I refuse to let anyone buy her any Barbies. I'm like, do not buy her a Barbie if you buy it. I'm telling you right now, it's going in the closet. She can't have it.
Chrissy Liu: It's so funny you say that during, um, COVID, we, you know, her birthday's in the summer, so we have these like neighborhood parties where you just put a tent in the driveway and people would be standing, you know, and.
One of our neighbors got her a, a, a doll.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Liu: And she, she comes and says, she goes, mom, what is this? And I was like, it's donation pile. That's what it's, 'cause like she plays with transformers and Pokemon and stuff. Mm-hmm. She, she has a, a, a. Girlfriend in the neighborhood who is super girly, only wears dresses and Avery only wears like Pokemon.
Yeah. So when they play the girl plays with American Girl Doll and Avery plays with like the doth Vader doll and they make it work and it and it's great
Toby Myles: go.
Chrissy Liu: But it's so funny 'cause like when the baby doll came, I, I looked at Irwin, I was like, oh, this last in our house.
Toby Myles: Exactly. Exactly. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, um, a couple things before we wrap this up.
Um. For somebody, anybody listening who is maybe thinking about, um, reinventing themselves, leaving something that feels like it no longer fits, um, what advice would you give them?
Chrissy Liu: Go for it. Without a doubt. Go for it. It's, it's scary as hell. It's vulnerable. It is. The fear of the unknown is real and you can be paralyzed by it.
But the reward on the other side is so much greater than the fear that it's worth it.
Toby Myles: Yeah, absolutely. That's so good. That's good. I love that. I mean, I figured that's what you're gonna say, but I want the world to hear that from your mouth. And then, um, where can people find and follow you? Because I, having talked about the book, which is, like I said, we're mid-March now, it's due out soon.
By the time this episode is airing, people are listening. The book is gonna be in the world. So where can people find you and follow you so that they know where they can get your book?
Chrissy Liu: Oh, thanks. So it's chrissyliu.com and that's my website, but the book will be linked there. You can also get it. You will be able to get it at, you know.
Amazon, Barnes Noble, anywhere books are sold online. Hopefully one day you'll walk into a bookstore and it will be there, but mm-hmm. That's, that's down the road. Um, it, so I am doing a paperback version, a hardback version, and an ebook version, which will all be available online and probably next week or the week after, I'm gonna record the audio book.
Toby Myles: Oh my gosh. So exciting. I'm so excited for this. Thank you so much. This has been amazing. I, we were talking and I was like, oh, we're recording a podcast. Maybe we need to like, you know, have an ending here in sight. So.
Chrissy Liu: Well, thank you for having me. This was so much fun and I am so grateful that you reached out after all these years of just following each other online and it has been delightful.
Toby Myles: Yeah, it's been amazing. Thank you again so much.
Chrissy Liu: Yeah, thank you.