Ramona Baker went from a quiet Southern childhood to decades of nonprofit leadership. In this episode, we explore how a middle school field trip to The Miracle Worker sparked her love of theater, why teaching reshaped her leadership style, and how she’s now writing a book to help executive directors and boards work together more effectively.
Check Out These Highlights:
Ramona recalls the moment she discovered theater as a place where she could finally be loud and expressive, despite growing up in a quiet household. That spark led her from biology labs to playwriting, and eventually into nonprofit leadership.
She reflects on her winding career path; from running arts organizations to teaching nonprofit management, and how teaching gave her a deeper appreciation for empathy and patience. Ramona candidly admits she wasn’t always the most empathetic boss, but learning to see each student as an individual transformed her leadership style.
We also talk about her upcoming book on the relationship between executive directors and nonprofit boards, why board dynamics are often misunderstood, and how nonprofits can thrive when leaders and boards truly understand each other’s roles. Her story is a reminder that even a “scribble” of a career path can lead to meaningful impact.
About Ramona Baker:
Ramona Baker is a nonprofit executive, educator, and consultant who has spent decades on every side of the nonprofit world; as an executive director, board member, and professor of nonprofit management. She helps organizations strengthen leadership and board relationships while championing the vital role nonprofits play in communities.
Connect with Ramona:
🌐 Website: https://www.ramonabakerconsulting.com/
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ramona-baker-0961608/
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About Me: https://tobymyles.com/about/
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Okay, you guys. I am so excited for this conversation today. My guest today is Ramona Baker, a nonprofit executive, educator, and consultant who spent decades on every side of the nonprofit world as an executive director, a board member, and a professor of nonprofit management. In this episode, we talk about how a middle school field trip to see The Miracle Worker changed everything for Ramona. Raised by quiet Southern parents, she watched an actress her own age scream and run wild across the stage, and she realized acting was the one place she could be loud and outspoken without getting in trouble. One of my favorite parts of our conversation was Ramona's honesty about not always being the most empathetic boss, and how teaching taught her to slow down and really see people. We also got into the book she's writing about the relationship between executive directors and nonprofit boards, and why the starving nonprofit stereotype isn't the whole story. Are you ready to get into it? Let's go
Toby Myles: Hey, Ramona. Welcome to the podcast.
Ramona Baker: Thank you so much, Toby. I'm glad to
Toby Myles: be here. I'm excited for this. We were chatting a little bit beforehand, and I apologize because our listeners can't see you, but you've got this gorgeous sort of greenish, bluish, maybe aqua shirt on, and I was like, "Ah, why don't I ever think of wearing color?"
I'm always in black or gray or sometimes white. I go crazy. But, um, I'm excited for this conversation. So I usually share how we know each other, and We met in a community called The Impact Incubator, which is a business incubator for thought leaders and creators and, and business owners. And
You just had such a, um, so much knowledge, first of all, but also what went along with that was just, like, a very, like, kind and approachable, um, demeanor, which those things don't always go together, unfortunately. So, uh, so we had a chance to hop on a call a few months ago, and I knew that you would make an amazing guest, and I'm thrilled that you said yes.
Ramona Baker: Thank you. I also got to attend a workshop that you did about stories- Oh, yeah ... and so enjoyed it.
Toby Myles: Oh, good. It was wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You know stories are my thing. I'll talk about storytelling all day long if anybody would listen, or even sometimes if people don't listen, I'll still talk about stories.
Uh, so I would love for you to take me back to a moment in time, um, sometime in your life, or could be, like, m- more than one moment, uh, where that you feel like really put you on the path that you're on right now.
Ramona Baker: I was raised in Alabama by Southern parents who were, my father was definitely an introvo- but, introvert, but both of my parents were quiet.
They were science people. They were readers, and they had absolutely, they couldn't think of any reason why anyone would ever need to raise their voice.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: I needed to scream- ... and I was aware of that at a fairly young age, but there was no place that was appropriate. So home wasn't appropriate, school wasn't appropriate, church wasn't appropriate.
It, I was trying to be a good girl, and um, so there was really no place to do that. Athletics were not something that was encouraged at that time or at my age. And one of the heroines in the state of Alabama is, uh, Helen Keller. She was born and raised there. And so when my parents, I was in about the seventh grade.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: And the play, The Miracle Worker, which is really more about, um, Annie Sullivan, uh, Helen Keller's teacher, than it really is about Helen Keller. Mm-hmm. But it was on tour, and so my parents were very excited, and I went to the performance with them. And what I saw was a little girl just a little bit older than I was screaming and running chaotically all over the stage.
And I thought, "Okay, this is it. I have found it. Um, this is a legitimate, fully sanctioned by my parents way that I can be very loud, that I can be too much, and to move too much, and be too loud, and too big, and whatever. Um, and, and it's okay."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: So, um, that was just, "This is all I want to do now is be on stage."
And so I did get, after a year or two, I convinced them to let me work in a children's theater there in my community, which was fortunately a really terrific theater company. And then I did theater when I was in high school. And then at the end of my high school, I was, um, offered a biology scholarship to college, and took it and, and did biology for two years, which, you know, creatively is magical.
Yeah. You know, just the fact that my lung is exchanging gases right now is pretty creatively phenomenal. Mm-hmm. But still, I was trying to do biology labs and also audition for scripts, and it was, it was not working well.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: So I left at the end of my sophomore year and, and moved to a, a, a college program that was more focused on theater.
Mm-hmm. And, and did that. Fell in love with playwriting.
Toby Myles: Okay.
Ramona Baker: Um, moved to New York afterwards and, um, nobody wanted to do my plays. Um, they would cast me- Mm-hmm ... but nobody wanted to do my plays. So it, it became very clear that, that I was... You know, the universe told me I was not an excellent playwright one-
one way or another. Um, and so I decided in my completely naive way that what I would do is I would learn everything I needed to know about running a theater company.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: And then I would run my own and produce my own plays if no one else would.
Oh, okay.
Ramona Baker: Which is, you know, it is so naive. That's not even possible.
Toby Myles: Right.
Ramona Baker: But it, it got me to graduate school. And so I studied, uh, arts administration, which is really the sort of the business side of non-profit. So it's the budget, and the marketing, and, uh, the HR, and all of the contracts, all of those things that have to happen so that the art can happen.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: Or whatever that the focus of that non-profit is.
So that's sort of what got me into, uh, running non-profit organizations, uh, uh, mostly in the arts but not exclusively, um, including being director of, um, a couple of local arts agencies. So, so part of your responsibility in that role is to evaluate non-profit organizations, and that is what truly fascinates me even today even though my career, I think, has just been, like, if you looked at it as a drawing, it would be a scribble.
You know, it's, it's up and down, and left
Toby Myles: and right- Mm-hmm ...
Ramona Baker: and there's nothing linear about it.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I'm glad you said that and, but the thing is, like, I f- I find that to be so much more true than I ever realized before I started doing this podcast. Like, I always felt that was true about my story because I started, I was a phys ed major, played volleyball in college, m- but then I dropped out 'cause really I was only there to play volleyball.
And so I dabbled in a few other things, went back for another semester and majored in hotel and motel management, but I didn't care about that. I just wanted to play volleyball. Uh, and then I took off and went to Israel for six months to visit my sister who was there at the time, and when I came back, I was like, "I need to, like, it's time for me to grow up and actually, like, focus on something."
And it was that same sister that said, "Well, why don't you take an art class? You've always been super creative." And then I did, and that led to enrolling full time and becoming a graphic designer, and that was, like, the first part of my career. But after that, I was, I was in marketing, I was in fitness, um, and now, you know, copywriting and then storytelling.
So I too look at my- The line, you know, and it's just, it's kind of all over the place, and I think Steve Jobs, and I always butcher this quote, but he talks about that you can't connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect the dots looking backwards. So do you feel like even though it seems like a scribble, that you were always just ready for the next right thing, like you were always faced with the next opportunity, and it made sense to you at the time?
Ramona Baker: Um, it didn't make sense to me at the time, but now, uh, w- I can connect the dots as I look back. Mm-hmm. Um, I, um... One of the things I had the opportunity to do, uh, along the way was, um- To speak, to do public speaking, um, internationally. Okay. So it was, it was a, um, a program that the State Department had in conjunction with the Kennedy Center, and someone at the Kennedy Center had heard me speak.
And so I spent several weeks in China one year, and the Soviet Union one year, uh, Australia, uh, Northern Ireland, a variety of different cultures, um, to talk about the arts and non-profits in the US, which is different from the way they appear in other countries, and it was ju- it was mind-expanding. Hmm. But there was no way I would've predicted that or applied for it, you know?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I just didn't
Ramona Baker: know that existed really, I think.
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah. It was just the next right thing, and you ha- you were in the right place at the right time for that opportunity. It, it was. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So before we get too far away from the, your idea of opening your theater, did you ever, like, come close to opening a theater?
No.
Ramona Baker: No. I mean, I was the executive director of one, but- Mm-hmm ... it was not mine, and we- Yeah ... certainly didn't, I, I would never have said, "You know what? Instead of that play, let's do one
Toby Myles: that I wrote." Yeah.
Ramona Baker: You know?
Toby Myles: Why not?
Ramona Baker: Be laughed out of the meeting.
Toby Myles: Yes, yes, for sure. So I'm curious, when you, uh, were biology major- Mm-hmm
which I appreciate that you, you said that there was some creativity there, 'cause my first thought was, "Oh my gosh," like, I was so bad in science, and I was always the creative person, and I struggled with the academics. I mean, I did fine and graduated, you know, w- you know, with good grades and everything like that, but struggled with some of those academics.
But I'm curious, like, what your, um, parents thought at that time when you made that switch. Was there, was there pushback, or did they say, "Oh, this is finally where Ramona fits"?
Ramona Baker: Oh, my father cried.
Toby Myles: Oh, no.
Ramona Baker: Oh, yes. Not my mother, but my father. You know, they, yes, they were, I, I think disappointed that I was going to give up the scholarship.
Mm, mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: But they both came from science and medicine, and so they thought this is, this is s- a career that they had loved, and so they saw me as, uh, going forward with, with that. And, um, it w- it was also I think in my mind, I- Believed, I thought, I imagined, I fantasized that I could find out where creativity was in the brain.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: I thought there was something we could do to make us more creative.
Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: Um, but when I was in college, really the only thing we knew about how the brain worked was when someone had a stroke and something didn't work.
Mm, yeah.
Ramona Baker: We didn't have any of the imaging things that we do now, and so it was, it was really not.
Yeah. But it was still, it was still fascinating for me. Um, the memorization was a pain. Um- Yeah ... but the more I learned to memorize lines as an actor, the better I got at memorizing things like the chemistry tables.
Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: And things like that. So one sort of helped the other.
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah.
Ramona Baker: It was, you know, it, it, it looks a little jarring.
This little offshoot branch.
Toby Myles: Yeah. But,
Ramona Baker: you know, I still use what I learned today, so.
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah. I think it's interesting too because you, in order to get a scholarship in biology you had to have had, like, decent grades in science. So were you thinking you would be a doctor or a researcher?
Ramona Baker: I suspect that, that, um, yes, I thought I would be a doctor.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Ramona Baker: I thought I would, um, uh... I think I've always been attracted to non-profit organizations because they have a mission to help people. Mm-hmm. Which was really, although through a variety of different methods, certainly something m- my family felt strongly about.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. That
Ramona Baker: we're here to help others.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Ramona Baker: We're here to make the lives of others easier.
Toby Myles: Yes.
Ramona Baker: And, um, and so that was the message. So I do think that that's, that's what I... I think pediatrician. Yeah. I think I wanted to be a pediatrician.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Int- that's so interesting. W- did you have s- do you have siblings?
Ramona Baker: I do. And, um, my sibling is a psychologist, so.
Toby Myles: Okay.
Ramona Baker: So, so- Okay ... everybody won that lottery but me . And I moved to theater.
Toby Myles: So I'm guessing the whole, um, you know, with your parents being, or at least your dad being introverted and more quiet at home, it wasn't just you that had to kind of tone it down, right?
Ramona Baker: Right. Right, right. Although I think my sister was more introverted than I was.
Um, I was the older. Mm-hmm. But we both had to, yeah, that was, we, we needed to walk the straight, the straight line. Yeah. And the straight line was quiet- Yeah ... and well-behaved.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Wow.
Ramona Baker: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Toby Myles: That's a tall order for, um, for kids, right?
Ramona Baker: It really is. It really is. That was my goal as a pediatrician, to be sure to explain to kids that they could be loud.
Toby Myles: Yes. Exactly. Um, so- I, one of the things that you, um, kind of touched on, um, before we hopped on this call, and, and I know that you believe in, is that, um, giving grace and empathy to people in general. Like, people are always, like, doing the best that they can, which I think is just such a, um, a beautiful thing.
I, I believe in that as well. You know, I was raised... I, I had, um, my brother, who has since passed, had Down syndrome, and he was four years younger than me. And so I grew up with this understanding that not everybody has the same set of, um, goals to reach or milestones or expectations, and people learn things in their own time.
And we celebrate wherever they are, from where they're starting to whatever they achieve. So I very much have grown up with that idea that for the most part, people are doing the best that they can with what they have in the moment. So can you, like, go into a little bit more about your philosophy on that?
Ramona Baker: Yes, and I think sadly, I didn't learn it soon enough.
Toby Myles: Mm.
Ramona Baker: Okay. I think that I was probably a lousy boss. My first couple of organizations where I was the executive director- Mm-hmm ... I was not, um, as empathetic. I, I, I felt very driven, and I wanted to make sure that as an organization we were doing the best.
And-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Ramona Baker: then I was easily irritated when that didn't turn out well.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Ramona Baker: Um, and then about 15, 16 years ago, I, uh, left that area and began teaching nonprofit management, and it's more... It was, it was, um, I, I learned that more as a teacher.
Toby Myles: Mm. Okay.
Ramona Baker: Because I saw each individual student. I actually, my first class to teach, I remember believing that if a student knew the answer to a question and I asked them that question, they could answer it right then.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: That's true for extroverts, but not necessarily for some introverts.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Ramona Baker: Or for some people who are less secure about presenting, or- Mm-hmm ... felt pressure from their fellow students.
Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: And so the gift that teaching gave me was to really have a much better understanding that we're all doing the best we can.
Mm-hmm. And
Ramona Baker: most of our students in the graduate program are, uh, older. So they're- Late 20s to early 50s.
Hmm. Okay.
Ramona Baker: So they have a family, a partner, uh, responsibilities in their community or various things, and they're doing the best they can.
Yeah.
Ramona Baker: They may or may not have read the text that was assigned, but they're giving- Mm-hmm
it their best
shot. Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: And, um, it really, that particular role has really dramatically increased my ability to be empathetic. So, you know, at some point it occurred to me that I owe a lot of apology notes- ... to the people that I was managing, you know, 25, 30 years ago.
Toby Myles: I think this is your apology right here on the podcast.
All of Ramona's employees from 15 years ago, she apologizes. She didn't know. She was doing the best that she could at the time. Which actually is true, right?
Ramona Baker: It absolutely was. Yeah. It absolutely was, yes. Um,
Toby Myles: I w- I do wanna, um, s- kind of pull on one thread that you just mentioned, because I am an introvert, and I would be one of those students that would c- feel, like, flustered and maybe know the answer, but maybe not know how to articulate the answer.
Is that what you mean? That, you know, someone who's more extroverted can answer right away, but someone who's more introverted, it might take a little while?
Ramona Baker: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. And I remember vividly, I w- we were sitting in a circle, and around l- a large conference table, and I said, "Let's just go all the way around."
And about the third student that I ask a question to, and she couldn't answer it. And I, I, I remember saying, "We've just been over this." Mm-hmm. You know? "How, how do you not have that answer?"
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: And she was gracious enough to explain to me later that f- the fact that I was impatient-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Ramona Baker: increased her stress level.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Ramona Baker: As did the pressure from all the other students, 'cause it looked like they all knew the answer and she didn't. Mm. And it really, so sadly, it took me one student at a time to, to really understand. And, and I have such an appreciation now for the fact that, you know, we all come to the table with different, um...
I, for example, am very poorly organized.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: There's a reason that, you know, you can't see what's right here.
Toby Myles: I think you're not the only one. Well, this,
Ramona Baker: well, this Zoom call, this desk is a crisis. And it is a struggle for me-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Ramona Baker: to find a- To even group things that are alike together. Mm-kay. And, and so it, I had to recognize that w- we're all dealing with different, uh, gifts.
Toby Myles: Yes. Yeah, for sure. I think that's so fascinating. I know several entrepreneurs who struggle with ADHD, and they have a different set of, um, tools that they need in order to be able to, to f- actually function, right?
Ramona Baker: Absolutely. Absolutely, yes. Yes.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, that's so interesting. I think that, um- I was working, I had been working on a keynote, um, and I set it aside because now I'm working on, um, a book, and we're gonna touch on that next 'cause I know you also have a book in the works.
Uh, but, but my one idea for a keynote was about, um, being an introvert, and that introver- introverts belong on stage, um, just as much as extroverts, and that we have a, um, I like to call it a superpower that because we are more quiet, we are also more observant, right? And, and part of that keynote is helping other leaders understand how they can help the introverts in their classroom, on their teams, even in their homes.
You know? If you have an extra- extroverted parent and an introverted child, like, how can you understand them and sort of help them to thrive and be the best that they can, and not just dismiss them as someone that has nothing to say.
Ramona Baker: Right. Yes, that's absolutely true. Yeah. That's absolutely true. I think patience is required.
Toby Myles: Yes.
Ramona Baker: It's also an acknowledgement that, you know, uh, th- they're bet- they're probably a lot better organized than I am. Um, the other thing about introversion, in my experience, is introverts are extremely thoughtful. Mm-hmm. By that, I mean they are thinking.
Toby Myles: Right.
Ramona Baker: You know? And frequently much deeper thinkers-
Toby Myles: Right
Ramona Baker: um, than the person who can quip it off at the top of the list. Um, and, uh, uh, I've also learned about being... My grandmother used to say, "You have one mouth and two ears. Use them in that proportion."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: And so, um, it, just being silent. I don't have to speak up.
Toby Myles: Right.
Ramona Baker: Not called for necessarily.
Toby Myles: Right. Yeah.
Ramona Baker: So that's also been, but
Toby Myles: yeah. Yes. But, you know, we, these are these things that we learn as we go on, and that's why, you know, w- when we get to be our age, our ages, that we're, you know, really just, um, have this whole breadth of experience. I think it only comes with, like, time and age and experiences and failures at things, right?
That we learn these hard lessons sometimes.
Ramona Baker: Those are the lessons that I, that really sink on, are the times that I truly failed.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Same.
Ramona Baker: You know? The-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Ramona Baker: we learn from absolutely.
Toby Myles: Exactly. Exactly. So, um, since I mentioned it, can we talk a little bit about your book? Is it, is it... We're inter- we're doing this interview in August.
Um, you and I talked maybe a month or so ago. Mm-hmm. Where are you in the process? You had just come back from a writing retreat, or- Yes ... yes, I think you had just come back from a writing retreat, which totally fascinated me because that is on my bucket list, um, maybe for next year. I've never been to a writing retreat, and I'm a writer, so there's something wrong with that.
But I wanna hear, uh, I wanna hear about that experience and also where you are with the book.
Ramona Baker: Where I am with the book. Um, I don't have an easy answer for that.
Toby Myles: Okay.
Ramona Baker: I know that the place... So my book is about nonprofit organizations- Mm-hmm ... but primarily the focus is the, the relationship between an executive director and the nonprofit board.
I- Okay ... feel passionately about the importance of nonprofit organizations. They save lives in our communities. Mm-hmm. They save people and, and, um, uh, y- they deal with illness, they deal with animals, they deal with social issues. They are just so critically important.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: And yet I have worked with so many nonprofits when there is a contentious relationship between the executive director and the nonprofit board.
Toby Myles: Okay.
Ramona Baker: And I believe that at the core of that is that they don't understand each other and why each person is there.
Toby Myles: Um- Mm, okay ...
Ramona Baker: the executive director, for example, reports to the full board, not just- Mm-hmm ... a person.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: So that's a different way for many of us who have learned to report to a person-
Toby Myles: Sure
Ramona Baker: rather than reporting to a group, which if they have good turnover in their board and represent their community, that group changes every year. So- Mm,
Toby Myles: okay ...
Ramona Baker: that, you know, that's a piece of it.
Toby Myles: Right. Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: Um, the, the board is legally responsible for the organization, and yet the board is charged with hiring and, and giving feedback to the executive director and not getting involved in the management of the organization.
Toby Myles: Okay.
Ramona Baker: drive some board members nuts. Yeah. They feel like they're in business, they get the picture, they know what needs to be fixed here. Right. So they're just some, some things that I think I can help. Mm. So that's the, that's the focus of my book. Mm. In who- That's
Toby Myles: so good.
Ramona Baker: Yeah. I, I really think I, I can be of help there.
I have been the executive director, I've been on boards, I've taught the field of nonprofit management, and I've also been part of the system. Yeah. So I feel like I c- I've observed it from the whole 360 and, and that I can, you know- Mm ... be helpful out there.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: I also want, um, people to want to be on boards.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: Um, and, uh, I wanna make it easier for them to f- to know how to do that. Mm-hmm. And to o- to, to be, uh, to not find it, uh, potentially intimidating or-
Toby Myles: Mm ...
Ramona Baker: they really wouldn't want me. They do. They do.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Ramona Baker: All the voices from all the community.
Toby Myles: For sure. Well, before I ask the next, next question I'm gonna ask about nonprofits, I know that you have a resource, m- multiple resources around, um, being on a board.
Right. In particular, what someone Should do if they want to be. Can you, um, share those resources and then tell people how they can, um, get those from you?
Ramona Baker: Absolutely. I have some documents that I've written about each one, so if anybody wants to contact me, it's R-A-M-O-N-A at
ramonabakerconsulting.com.
Perfect.
Ramona Baker: And just write me and I'll send you one. For example, um, when I was an executive director, in my entire career of being an executive director, which was many years, I only received three, I only heard from three people who said, "I'd like to be on the arts council board or on the theater board."
Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: That's a, that's just a minute number of people.
Yeah.
Ramona Baker: And so in all cases, those people made wonderful board members. Mm-hmm. So I want to encourage people to, you know, if you'd like to be more involved in things-
Mm-hmm ...
Ramona Baker: um, call and ask if you can volunteer with the animals at the shelter-
Yeah ...
Ramona Baker: or that sort of thing.
Or write to the executive director and say, you know, "Can we talk? I'm interested in serving on the board, and, and here's why. I love-" Yeah ... "animals." Um, so it, I want... But I have documents on, um, if someone asks you to be on a nonprofit board-
Mm-hmm ...
Ramona Baker: what the kinds of questions are that you need to know the answer to before you take on that responsibility, because-
Okay
Ramona Baker: it is a legal responsibility.
Okay.
Ramona Baker: Um, the other one is about how to improve board meetings. Um, I frequently run into people and I'll ask about how the organization is going, um, w- the board on which they sit. Mm-hmm. You know, I don't come to many board meetings anymore. They're just so boring. And I,
I can help that.
So
Ramona Baker: drop me a note. Mm-hmm. I'll send it to you. I just have just a brainstorm of ideas that I've collected over the years by watching people who really did a good job.
Toby Myles: Mm.
Ramona Baker: Um, or, you know, if someone wants to be on the board, how to, how to contact those people, but.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so good. I thi- I think this raises such a interesting conversation because I would bet that there are people that it never even occurred to them that they could, you know, that there was some avenue.
I think people have in their minds that board members are just picked from the community, and they're people with a lot of influence and maybe a lot of money, and it seems ... I mean, maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but it seems very mysterious to me, like how that all works.
Ramona Baker: Yeah. So let's break that down because it's not, and it shouldn't be.
And yes, there certainly are organizations that have to raise a lot of money and have a lot of emphasis on that, but-
Mm-hmm ...
Ramona Baker: you know, the IRS, which is the, the federal agency that a- that says you are or not a non-profit organization-
Mm-hmm ...
Ramona Baker: based on the, the tax codes.
Sure.
Ramona Baker: You have a responsibility to represent the whole community.
Okay.
Ramona Baker: So you, you don't want ... I mean, you, you ... That's there so that you can get advice from the largest number of people.
Toby Myles: Okay.
Ramona Baker: Um, you know, we've all seen things like advertising and marketing things go just totally e- the one that comes to mind, um, is the Peloton commercial about four or five years ago when the husband supposedly gave the Peloton to his wife so that she could exercise and have a better body.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Or I don't know how it was phrased, but-
Toby Myles: Right ...
Ramona Baker: I remember thinking the first time I saw that commercial Who was in the room?
Toby Myles: Probably no women.
Ramona Baker: Right. How many women were in the room when you decided this would really be a good idea, and it would work- Mm-hmm ... as a marketing tool?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: Um, surely not many.
Yeah. And if you only had one or two women, maybe they were too intimidated to speak up. Right. But you didn't really have a representation of the female community in that room when that-
Toby Myles: Right ...
Ramona Baker: was chosen. Yeah. I apologize to any Peloton people who are listening.
Toby Myles: You
Ramona Baker: know, that just really struck me. And so a nonprofit organization, in order to nee- meet the needs of that community, needs to know what the community thinks.
Mm-hmm. And in order to do that, they really need a cross-section, and there are a lot of nonprofits that struggle to, to know people they don't know.
Toby Myles: Mm. Okay.
Ramona Baker: But, you know, they need people who have arms into different parts of the community, so-
Toby Myles: Sure ...
Ramona Baker: I really encourage people to do that, and I think it's a, a really great way to participate in your community, to really-
Toby Myles: Yeah
Ramona Baker: be a part of it and, and, and do, and be, be engaged in that.
Toby Myles: Yes, for sure, and we all have such varied interests, right? And we probably can find something that matches those interests that we feel passionate about.
Ramona Baker: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes, yeah.
Toby Myles: Oh, I love that. So I, I, but I do wanna talk about this, because, um, I, I just want your view on it.
I think when people hear nonprofit, they automatically think struggling for money. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Which, which really, like, hurts me in some ways, because I think so many nonprofits do the most important work of, like, anybody.
Ramona Baker: Yes.
Toby Myles: Right? Absolutely. So can you talk about that a little bit?
Ramona Baker: Yes. So i- to illustrate, uh, the arts, which is the, the area that I know the best.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: If you're sitting in a seat in a theater watching a music or dance or theater performance-
Mm-hmm ...
Ramona Baker: the ticket that you purchased pays for half of your butt to be in that seat.
Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: And the other half comes from another source, and the reason that your ticket doesn't pay for the entire- Butt in the seat
Toby Myles: Yeah
Ramona Baker: Is because it would be too expensive.
There would be no one-
Toby Myles: Oh ...
Ramona Baker: the, the, the majority of the community would not be able to come.
Toby Myles: Okay.
Ramona Baker: So that's, that's why, and so a, a, a performing arts organization might raise half of that money from, um, it selling T-shirts in their shop. Mm-hmm. They might raise it as fundraisers. They might have a golf o- outing.
They might raise that from, um, maybe their city funds or state funds or federal funds that are available to them, grants of some kind, maybe contributions.
Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: Um, but the same thing is true if you look at, um, organizations that work with animals or library work. Most of the cost of covering something in the neighborhood of 40 to, to 50 to 60%, most of that has to be supplemented some way.
Toby Myles: Mm, okay.
Ramona Baker: And so sometimes that's, that's a variety of, usually it's a variety of different ways.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. I know fundraising is a huge part. I worked, when I worked in direct response marketing, I, several of my clients were non-profits, and a lot of what we did in mailings and emails was to raise money, get people to join a membership, and, and that money would go to scholarships or to, you know, fix something or provide meals or what have you.
So I know that that is just an ongoing, um, task for non-profits.
Ramona Baker: It, it is. It is. Even if you look at colleges and universities now, the average student is not paying full tuition.
Toby Myles: Right.
Ramona Baker: It j- would be impossible to afford almost.
Toby Myles: Right.
Ramona Baker: And so they're, they have loans, they have scholarships, they have fundraisers.
Um, but, uh- It, the, the starving, um, reputation is, is, uh, is, is painting with the wrong brush, but it's the, it's the image that's out there, I'm afraid.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure, because I think, well, there's the fundraising piece, right? We've all been on the receiving end of that, someone asking us for money. But then I know several people that have said they would like to go work for a nonprofit, but they can't afford to.
Exactly. Right? Yeah. Which I think also is sad. It- it's, it's along the lines of we don't pay our teachers enough, right? But these are, like-
Ramona Baker: Exactly ...
Toby Myles: shaping our young minds. They should make more than doctors.
Ramona Baker: Yes, that's right. I am very optimistic about the younger generation on this item. You know, I, I read an article, I believe it was in The New York, I mean, The Washington Post, within the past week, saying that among younger people, that the number one hobby is now bird watching.
Toby Myles: Really?
Ramona Baker: Really.
Toby Myles: I thought that was, like, an old people's hobby.
Ramona Baker: Me too. Me too. But it's the younger generation, and I think the reason is they're, they're rejecting the technology. You're gonna be out looking at birds.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: You're gonna have your phone off.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: You're gonna be in nature away from the city or the complicated life.
You're gonna be somewhere out in the woods with no phone.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Ramona Baker: So I think the same is true as the younger generation now is looking at being a part of their community, giving back, getting more involved. They're also gonna say to the job that they clock in from 9:00 to 5:00, they're gonna say, "When that clock goes off at 5:00, I am out of here."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Ramona Baker: So that is a much, um, bal- the balance of work and life is not a phrase that anyone used 20 years ago.
Toby Myles: Right.
Ramona Baker: You know, you just, you just worked until you dropped.
Toby Myles: Yes.
Ramona Baker: And then we'll get you a glass of water.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Ramona Baker: You know? So it was, um, it's a very different, it's a ver- it's much more involved in giving back, um, for their own peace of mind as well as for the community.
Mm. I think. I
Toby Myles: love that. I love that. As somebody that has just been, um- I don't wanna get political here because that's not what this is about, but I've seen things over the past eight years that I never knew about my fellow Americans, and n- a lot of it is not good. Um, and so that gives me hope that the younger generation is, is maybe rebelling against that and, and wants ways to just be more connected.
Ramona Baker: I believe that, and it does give me optimism.
Toby Myles: Yeah. That's great. So, um, I usually ask my guests to give some piece of advice to our listeners, but I feel like you have already done that with the whole, you know, how, how can you s- help in your community by finding out how you can serve on a board. I mean, I think that's...
I mean, you've inspired me to look into that- Thank you ... because I live in a community, I've lived here for seven years, and I feel s- still kind of isolated, like I don't... I know my neighbors, but I don't think I'm really active in my community, and that would be an amazing way to do that.
Ramona Baker: It, it really is.
You know, I, I have... I know people who go into the schools and read with the first and second grade-
Mm-hmm ...
Ramona Baker: um, I know, I live in Indianapolis, so I know a couple of sports figures who have made arrangements with principals in high schools that if they get any publicity, they'll stop doing this.
Mm-hmm.
Ramona Baker: Otherwise, they come and read with the 11th and 12th grade boys-
Mm ...
Ramona Baker: to encourage them to read. Yeah. You know, there are those kinds of things. I know so many families have been involved in issues that involve illnesses, and involve research, and involve those kinds of things that- You know, I have some family members who've been, um, who've dealt with Alzheimer's, and so that- Mm-hmm
has been a way that I have felt, 'cause it's a such a helpless feeling-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Ramona Baker: that you can't fix that. That, that being involved in the Alzheimer's organization has helped me feel a degree of control-
Toby Myles: Sure ...
Ramona Baker: almost, that I'm able to affect something.
Toby Myles: Something.
Ramona Baker: Mm-hmm.
Toby Myles: Um,
Ramona Baker: yes. Or, you know, the animals, or, um, holding babies in the NICU.
Mm-hmm. You know, it's just there are so many opportunities there. I think it really is a way to, to connect. Yeah. And a great way to figure that out.
Toby Myles: Yeah. I love that. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad that you, you talked about all of that. I think that's, is so amazing. So, um, again, remind people where they can find you or follow you online.
Ramona Baker: Oh, definitely. I'd love that. It's, uh, R-A-M-O-N-A, at ramonabakerconsulting.com.
Toby Myles: Okay. That's amazing. And also- And you're, you're gonna tell me you're on LinkedIn too, right?
Ramona Baker: Yes. Okay. Ramona Baker on LinkedIn. Hopefully,
Toby Myles: yeah. I wanted to make sure we got that in there too. Well, Ramona, this has been so much fun.
I knew it would be. I appreciate all of this. As always, I, I never know for sure where our conversations is gonna go, but I- Well- ... I feel so inspired now, and I know our listeners will also. So again, thank you so much for joining me today.
Ramona Baker: Thank you. I have enjoyed it thoroughly. Thanks for the questions.