Rachel Anzalone shares her journey from running a $14M restaurant operation she never wanted to manage to advising founders on building sustainable businesses. In this episode, we talk about why launching and running a business are entirely different skills, how to break free from online hype, and the importance of designing a business around the experience you actually want to have.
Check Out These Highlights:
If you’ve ever felt caught up in the hustle of online marketing or pressured to build a business that doesn't fit your life, this episode is for you. Business strategy advisor and Ease and Acumen founder Rachel Anzalone joins Toby Myles to share how she went from a small-town student with career-day existential dread to helping founders design sustainable, founder-led businesses.
In this conversation, Rachel breaks down why launching a business and running one require completely different skill sets, how to prioritize when you have 10 ideas at once, and why true alignment starts with asking what experience you want to be having long before looking at revenue goals. Listeners will walk away with practical insights on setting boundaries around advice, stepping off the constant scale-and-hustle hamster wheel, and building a business that honors their actual capacity and core values.
About Rachel Anzalone:
Rachel Anzalone is a business strategy advisor and the founder of Ease and Acumen. She helps founder-led service businesses build sustainable operations, align their strategy with their actual lives, and achieve meaningful growth without burning out.
Connect with Rachel:
🌐 Website: http://easeandacumen.com
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelanzalone/
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rachelanzalone/
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About Me: https://tobymyles.com/about/
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Hey, everyone. There are so many juicy nuggets in today's episode that really hit home for me, and I think you're gonna love this one. My guest today is Rachel Anzalone, a business strategy advisor and founder of Ease and Acumen. In this episode, we talk about how Rachel went from a kid with major dread on career day because she had no clue what she wanted to do, to eventually helping founders build businesses that fit their actual lives. Rachel spent years running a restaurant operation she never wanted to run, and she shares what that job taught her about leading people. Her approach is the opposite of a borrowed blueprint. She starts by asking what experience you want to be having long before she talks about revenue or growth. We also talked about why launching a business and running one are two very different things, what to do when you have 10 ideas at once, and how to listen to yourself when everyone online has advice. Are you ready? Let's get into it
Toby Myles: Hey, Rachel. Welcome to the podcast.
Rachel Anzalone: Hi, Toby. It's so great to be here.
Toby Myles: Um, I've been looking forward to this conversation. It's so funny, uh, we were talking a little bit before I pressed record. I usually like to share how we know, know each other, because I just think it's so interesting to me in this world of being online how we can be connected to people that- 20 years ago, we would never have known, right?
Yeah. But that's, to me, one of the best things that has come out of social media, is getting to meet so many amazing people, um, and other people having the ability to introduce us to other amazing people. So I would say at least half of the guests that I've had on Her Origin Story have... are women that have been introduced to me by other guests.
But in your case, we were kind of like floating around, um, similar circles for quite some time, and we- Yeah ... have some connections in common, uh, before you and I actually ever met. Um, and you can tell me your point of view on this, but at one point, I think I commented, commented on something you wrote on LinkedIn, and then Robin Kramer, who we both know, but- Yeah
from different circles, messaged me. She's like, "How do you know Rachel?" I'm like, "I don't, I don't know how I know Rachel."
Rachel Anzalone: That's what happens when you can't remember who it was who connected you.
Toby Myles: Yes.
Rachel Anzalone: I actually have that kind of circle with Robin and a couple of other people that I met in different spaces, and then found out that they all knew each other.
And so- Mm-hmm ... now the webs are so intertwined that I don't remember who I met first or who introduced me to who. Yes. Exactly. Um, I just know that I get to talk to a lot of really awesome women who are very smart and, uh- E-
Toby Myles: exactly. Same ...
Rachel Anzalone: and great conversation.
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah. In fact, not that long ago, we both know, um, Melissa Camilleri.
Rachel Anzalone: Yes.
Toby Myles: And also from different circles, and she was at an event a few months ago, a mom's group. Yes. A, a mom's event. And I was looking at the picture, and then I saw, uh, Jen Baxter. I'm like, "How did Jen Baxter get there?"
Rachel Anzalone: That's so funny. I was there at that event. I, I actually didn't attend the event, but I drove up.
It was in Austin, and I'm in San Antonio, so I drove up there to hang out and met some people that I had met online- Mm-hmm ... but never met in person. Melissa and I have known each other I think we decided since 2020 maybe.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Um,
Rachel Anzalone: and had never met in person, so that was- Yeah ... our first time hanging out in person, and, um, yeah.
It, it's, it's really cool that we get to have these experiences with people from all over. Yes. And then- For sure ... sometimes we get to be in a room with them.
Toby Myles: Yes, exactly. Yeah. And my husband, who is not really much on social media, for the longest time, he's like, "But are th- are these, like, real friends, these people?
You just know them online." I'm like, "Oh, very much so." And, and if I could meet every single one of my online friends- Yeah ... in, in real life, I would do it, totally.
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah. Like, if you lived here, we would go for a walk every morning-
Toby Myles: Yes ...
Rachel Anzalone: and talk about
Toby Myles: all the things. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. We for sure would.
Yeah. Okay. So now that we, we- ki- kind of figured out sorta who we know. We just, I've, I've seen you online, I followed you online, and one day I was just like, I just love what you talk about. Um, and just the fact that you're friends with Melissa and Robin already, like, I knew that, you know, we would have some great conversations.
So we talked a few months ago, and you said yes to joining me today on the podcast. I'm excited for this conversation. So I would love for you to, uh, take us back to a moment in time, or maybe it's, like, several moments, where you feel, like, really kinda influenced the path that you're on right now
Rachel Anzalone: It's such an interesting question because I feel like one of the, um, sort of, like, the primary angst of my life growing up forever was that there were people who seemed to know exactly what they wanted to do.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And I was not that person. I was like, you know, from, from, like, elementary school where it's, like, career day, like, dress up like what you wanna be when you grow up, I would have, like, major existential- ... dread because there were always so many things I was interested in and so many- Mm-hmm ... things I wanted to do that trying to pick a thing seemed just like im- an impossible task.
Mm-hmm. And I would see other people who were like, "I know I wanna be a doctor," or, "I know I wanna be a teacher," and follow those paths, like, whatever their inspiration was for that moment. So when I look back now from where I'm sitting and think about, like, how did I end up here, it really was a p- a, a long and winding road of d- following opportunities that felt right or fit, fit the moment.
Even if they weren't the thing that I knew I wanted to do, I made a point of learning something from those experiences that then I took to the next thing. Mm-hmm. And just really being open to the, a desire to live a life that feels good and has meaning and that I get to show up and feel the way I wanna feel every day.
Mm-hmm. And that has taken me on a lot of different paths that only make sense now- Yeah ... in my, like, late 40s to go, "Oh, all of those things fit together-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: to do what I do now."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Yeah, for
Rachel Anzalone: sure. And I couldn't, I couldn't have chosen it as a career path.
Toby Myles: No. No way. Yeah. I, I've said this a lot, uh, and I probably should look it up and make sure I say it correctly.
There's a quote, uh, from S- Steve Jobs about connecting the dop- dots, and you can't connect the dots forward, you can only connect the dots looking backwards. Yes. And, and that, it sounds like res- would resonate with you. It resonates with me as well because I've done a lot of different things with no plan really.
It's just what is the next thing that I feel like I want to do or try. Yeah. And that curiosity piece, um, you know, just, just doing the next right thing for me in that moment-
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah ...
Toby Myles: is, is what I've done, whether it's was the smartest thing to do or not.
Rachel Anzalone: Exactly. I have those moments where I'm like, "If I had picked a thing," there, it probably- Mm-hmm
would've been a lot easier.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Um, but the, um, like, the way finding is actually I think what's most enjoyable to me. It's the figuring it out.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And, um, and, and the only way to do that is to not know the exact plan from point A to point B.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. And to not- worry about, um, maybe t- taking a turn or a pivot- Yeah
or however you wanna describe it. It doesn't necessarily mean, like, you're quitting something, it just means, like, maybe it's not in alignment anymore. Maybe this next thing is building on the previous thing in a way that you can't... is not so clear, but it just feels like what you're supposed to do next. I, my last boss, uh, before I start my business back in 2019, said, "I love how you keep reinventing yourself."
And it shocked me when she said that, because I never thought of it that way. Mm. I always just thought of it was like, "This is what I'm doing next." Like, in my last job, I worked in marketing, and I managed, uh, creative teams of, like, writers and designers, and I always wanted to do copywriting. And so when I left, that was really what I did when I start my business.
And so to me, that was, like, a natural thing. Yeah. Like, I wanted to do it. I couldn't do it in my job 'cause I was busy managing projects. But to me, it just seemed like, "Oh, okay, now I get to do this thing."
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah. Yeah. I think similarly, I, um... There's, like, a, there are skills that I've developed over the years, and I've found myself at times doing work that's like, "Well, this is the work that needs to be done."
Mm-hmm. This is the work that's gonna pay the bills. Mm-hmm. And it might not be, like, the thing, you know- Mm-hmm ... but it's the work that's here now. And, um, and recognizing that while I'm doing that work, I have this other set of skills that I'm not tapping into-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: that really is probably what my actual gifts are.
Yeah. And that those can only be done, you know, like, f- you know, for you, if you have the space to be creative to do the writing- Mm. Right ... not when you're managing the project.
Toby Myles: Exactly.
Rachel Anzalone: You know? And for me, it's to be able to look at the whole big picture and the pieces and, like, ask the bigger questions, which I could not do when I was running marketing campaigns.
Toby Myles: Sure. Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: Because I had to be laser focused on, did the deliverable hit the deadline? Mm-hmm. Did they get a QA check? Like, those things. Mm-hmm. It's a very different way of thinking. Mm-hmm. And, um, and I think, I, I think so many of the women that we know have such a variety of skills that it's like, whatever comes up, we're like, "Yeah, I can do that.
I can get that done." Yeah. Um, but finding the thing that's, that really- It really taps into the, to the thing that is uniquely you- Mm-hmm ... that allows you to bring your perspective and your insight and your wisdom and your creativity to it.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Uh, I feel like for me at least, that's something that has come really only later in this, this- Yeah
I wanna say later in life, and then I'm like, I'm only 48.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: But it is later, you know? Some people get- Yeah ... it in their 20s or their 30s, and for me, it's really just been in these last handful of years.
Toby Myles: Yeah. And, and I think, like, I know I do think, like, it sometimes it does take that long. Even if you are somebody who is so- like you were talking about, who, who knows what they wanna do when they're at a young age, and they go to college for that thing, and they major in that thing, and their first job is in that same thing.
They also may find later, like, "Yeah, that wasn't really what I thought it was gonna be," or, "That doesn't- Yeah ... really, like, you know, fill me up in the way that I thought it would." So-
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah ...
Toby Myles: I think even those people who s- seem to us... 'Cause I was very much like you. I was like, I, I don't know, like, I like to write, and I like to make art and make things, and I, I was silly and goofy, and I think my parents were terrified that I was like-
ne- never gonna, never gonna leave home and do something, you know, as a productive adult. So-
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah.
Toby Myles: So-
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah ...
Toby Myles: you, um, one of the things that you shared was, uh, about this draft, handwritten draft of a speech that you gave at your high school graduation. Yeah. Um, can you talk about that a little bit? 'Cause I, I really wanna hear that story.
Rachel Anzalone: You know, it, it's really fascinating. So first, I grew up in a very, very small town- Mm-hmm ... and when I say that, everybody gets an idea of what a small town is, and then I want you to take that and shrink that by, like, 200%.
Toby Myles: Wow.
Rachel Anzalone: Um, the town I grew up in was outside of Buffalo, New York, so like western New York State.
Um, it was, uh, there were 400 kids, kindergarten through 12, that were- Mm ... bused from a pretty large radius. And, um, so it was very small. We kind of now, you know, my cousins who also went there, and my sister, we talk about it. We're like, "That school produced really nice people." Really- Yeah ... people who really care about anybody and are willing to help, and, like, that was the ethos of the school.
Mm-hmm. Um, but it wasn't really, like, demanding. There wasn't a lot of challenge. There wasn't a lot of, there wasn't really, like, a competitive nature. Like, now when I look at kids doing in school- Yeah ... and how, how much work they have to do to apply themselves, you know, to get the scholarships, to get the recognition, all that stuff, like- Mm-hmm
we just showed up. Mm-hmm. You didn't have to try out for a team 'cause there weren't enough kids to field the team anyways. You just played. Everybody played, you know?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: So I had this, um, this experience of, like- And now I look at it, it feels like it was very spacious and very, you know, like I, I got to play in a lot of areas.
I got to, you know, be in the art room and be on the soccer field and, you know, be in academics and sort of play with all the stuff. And so, um, it turned out I graduated, like, at the top of my class, which again, not a big statement when there's only 26 kids in the class. So I'm not, not claiming to be any kind of an academic genius, but I was, like, pretty smart.
And, um, and I gave a speech at my graduation and, um, and then of course, put it in a box. Like- Mm-hmm ... these are the days I literally handwr- wrote it on- Mm-hmm ... um, college ruled paper- ... so that I could have it on paper and read up there. And, um, in true, uh, creative neurodivergent fashion, I think I wrote it the night before- Yeah
as, as one does. And I put it in a box, and then, uh, somewhere along the way in the last 15, 17 years of moving, moving boxes, unpacking things, whatever, I came across it and started reading it, and I was like, "Holy shit, this is... I've literally been saying these things since I was 17 years old."
Toby Myles: Mm.
Rachel Anzalone: That like, why we need to find the meaning in the things that we're doing.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That it's not just about ticking the boxes. It's not just about accomplishing the goals. It's about finding the meaning and having, uh, relationships and, um, and really our experience of it all and not just, I don't know, I guess sort of, you know, it was the late '90s. We were all sort of, like, raging against the machine or whatever we
whatever we were doing. Like, we didn't, we didn't wanna comply with the man. We wanted to have- ... something, like, more meaningful.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And so that, I feel like, is, is the thread that has woven through everything of my life. Mm-hmm. And, um, and like I said, once, there were times when I was like, I'd start writing or, you know, I'll go back and look at something and be like, "Oh, my gosh, I'm s- I'm still saying the same thing."
I just have- Yeah ... not learned these lessons. Um- Yeah ... and it is, um- You know, even through the time periods where it was like, "But I have to do this job because it's gonna be... It's gonna pay the bills." Sure. Even if it's not the thing that feels really meaningful.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: There was always a part of me that was like, "How can I find the meaningful thing in this?"
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I do think, like, sometimes the meaning is, like, okay, I, I need to survive at this point in time. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think about w- at my last company, I took that job because I was a single mom and I needed benefits, and I need my kids to have a normal schedule. And I stayed there for almost 15 years and, you know, it wasn't...
I didn't think of it as, like, my life's work, but it, it was a good job. I made lifelong friends there. I had the best boss ever. And, um, looking back on it now, I was in, uh, direct response marketing, so I'm... That is where I learned about, you know, how do you, how do you measure campaigns when you put something in the mail or when you send an email?
How do you measure the data so that you use that to drive decisions going forward? Yeah. And when I started my business, not a lot of people were talking about copywriting in that way, you know? It's just how can you just put some nice words on a, on a email or, you know, in a, on a website. And it's like, no, that's not, like, that's a waste of your money.
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah.
Toby Myles: Um, and so-
Rachel Anzalone: Or you don't know if it's a waste of your money
Toby Myles: Exactly Or you don't-
Rachel Anzalone: You're
Toby Myles: just guessing Right. You're g- just guessing Yeah And how do you make decisions-
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah ...
Toby Myles: on going forward without having that data? So I could look back, you know, once I got, once I was working with clients, I could look back and say, "Okay, that s- is serving me now," when at the time it was like, you know, we joked in the office it was just junk mail.
Which a lot of it was junk mail- ... but not all of it. Uh, but, but yeah, but sometimes, like, that is the purpose is, like, this is just- Yeah ... survival in this moment.
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah. I had, um, so I, the, nearby where I grew up was a ski resort town, so kind of every- everybody's job in high school and when you were in college, you'd come home, you'd work at the ski resort.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Or you'd work in the restaurants. Like, those were the kinds of jobs that were available. And, um, and so I did that for a long time, and even when I graduated from college, um, I was very naive. I thought I would graduate from college and then, like, get a job in the s- field I went to, I got my bachelor's degree in.
Mm-hmm. Of course. Um, and then found out that I could make way more money if I kept working in restaurants than I could if I went down that path. Mm-hmm. And so I kept doing it for a while, and the last, my last job that I had, um, was working for a restaurant franchise, and I did not wanna work there. I, I, I cried.
I did not want the job. I felt like I had to take the job. It was like one of those moments in life where it was like, this is the responsible thing to do.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And so I'm gonna do it.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And then I'll, is, I'm gonna get the job, I'm gonna show up, I'm gonna get a paycheck, and then I'll figure it out after-
Toby Myles: Yeah
Rachel Anzalone: like what I really wanna do and find some other opportunity.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And, um, I got hired by this company and got promoted really quickly. Um, and for me, it was fun. I was like, "I'm learning and I'm getting promoted." Mm-hmm. Like, what's better than that? Yeah. It just was very fast-paced. I was getting a lot of pats on the back.
And then I found myself in this position where I was running first one restaurant and then multiple as I became a, like, a district manager, a director of operations. And, um, the job felt really big, and I was sort of just figuring it out as I went. Mm-hmm. I think I was, like, 28 or 29.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And, um, more than anything in the whole world, what I did not wanna be doing was running restaurants.
Like, it really felt like a major disappointment for, you know, like, it just was not what I wanted to be doing.
Toby Myles: Yeah. But
Rachel Anzalone: I had to find it inside myself to, like, show up there every day and do the work. Mm-hmm. I made the job about the people who worked for me and how I could help them accomplish their goals- Mm-hmm
because I, they didn't wanna be there either. Mm-hmm. You know? So it was like every shift supervisor, assistant manager, general manager, employees, I made my work about what's important to you outside of here and how can you lear- take what you're doing here and apply it to that.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And so what resulted from that is that I became a really great leader of people because I built relationships with them.
They felt seen. They felt like somebody cared about them and wasn't, like, just expecting them to, like, punch the clock and do the thing and, and- Mm-hmm ... treating them like garbage-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: um, like happens so often. And, um, I've really developed my own skills as, like, how do I, in a scenario where nobody wants to be here, but the work needs to get done-
Toby Myles: Yeah
Rachel Anzalone: and it needs to get done well- Mm ... how do I motivate people? How do I get them on board? How do I get them, keep them engaged?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And, um, you know, and I learned all, all about how to make money.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: You know, like with very small profit margins and, like, all the, all the little things that need to be measured.
But, like, what I r- feel like I really got out of it was the ability to look at the people around me and help them reach the goal that they wanted to reach, whether that was to be in a band or to get themselves in college, you know. Mm-hmm. Or whatever it was that they were doing that was outside of that job.
Like- Mm-hmm ... how could what we were doing there apply to the rest of their lives?
Toby Myles: Mm. That's pretty amazing when you think about it because probably other people in your position With that, that, without that internal kind of like measuring stick of like finding meaning would have taken an approach of like how can I keep these people here as long as possible right?
Yeah. In this job. Like we're training them. We don't wanna have to hire new people, train new people, right? Yeah. Um, and so your m- mentorship was less about like how do I like make them happy in the job, but how do I make them happy like bigger picture overall?
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah. Probably one of the most significant things that I learned there that has applied to my, my life in supporting other entrepreneurs in their businesses is- Mm-hmm
um, that the, the personality type of the person who builds the thing and is excited by the building of the thing and the pro- um, the solving of the problems-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: it's a really different personality type than that of the person who's gonna show up and do the repetitive thing day after day after day.
Toby Myles: Right.
Rachel Anzalone: Like opening a restaurant and managing a restaurant are two completely different experiences.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Launching a business and running a business are two- Mm-hmm. ... completely different experiences.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And so often for those of us who are self-employed, it's like the creating of the thing that is what's exciting.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And then when it comes to like the day to day-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Rachel Anzalone: um, it, it's, it's not the same. And so my experience helping other entrepreneurs in their business is like, oh, you're just... It's not that you're constantly launching something new because you feel like you have to, it's because that's what you actually like to do is to make- Yes
a new thing. Yes. You don't want to do the repetitive thing.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: But the result of that is that you're just working your ass off all the time. Right. And so, um, you know, finding a person to take over the day to day management so that you can keep, you know-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: getting those structures in place so that you can have that freedom to do the creative thing that you love is, um-
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Oh my gosh. I feel like- Yeah ... you just described me. I'm like shaking my head because I am the person who likes to create new things, right? Yeah. And I get bored with like routine and, and that-
Rachel Anzalone: 100%. Yeah, same.
Toby Myles: Right. Same. And it can feel like... It can... There's like a twinge I get 'cause it can feel like, well, why am I not happy with this thing that I just built?
spent all this time building. Yeah. Like, what's wrong with me?
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah.
Toby Myles: Does that... Do you find that with people when they don't understand the difference between kind of like the two roles that they play?
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah, I think that it is, um, I think where the problem comes in is when either they try to do it to themselves or somebody externally tries to do it to them.
But somebody who is creative and, and needs and wants that experience, when you're trying to force them into a way of operating that doesn't match that-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Rachel Anzalone: um, it creates like a massive disconnect. Like- Yeah ... then now they don't enjoy their business at all, right?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And so I feel like this is why I always start with, like, what is the experience that you wanna be having?
Mm-hmm. So before we talk about how do you grow your revenue, or how do you build your team, or, like, any of the things that could happen on the growth side of the business-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: we need to talk about what's the experience you wanna be having. Yeah. Because so often we're looking at what other people are doing, and we think we just need to do that.
Like, oh, that- Yeah ... person is on vacation all the time, so I need to build a va- a business like them so that I can be on vacation.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: But they also have a team of 30 people they're managing. Sure. Yeah. Do you wanna manage a team of 30 people? Right. Um, or do you wanna be like a solo creative, you know, I'm making something new all the time, you know?
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, um, and then finding the way to make it work that's custom for you. So like- For, um, for some people that's having like a steady instream that's, a steady income stream that's not like the most exciting thing.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: But it's there, and they know their, you know, their team's gonna be paid and their bills are gonna be paid, and then having the freedom to do the creative other- Yeah
interesting things.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: You know?
Toby Myles: Oh, gosh.
Rachel Anzalone: Whether it's just- That's so
Toby Myles: insightful ...
Rachel Anzalone: whether it's like project based-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Rachel Anzalone: or it- Yes ... on, you know, if you're writing somebody's newsletter for them every week-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: you would probably get bored very quickly. Mm-hmm. But if you're, if everything's like a project-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm
Rachel Anzalone: that has a beginning and an end, then it has, suddenly has a totally different energy to it.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think what you, uh, what you said too is interesting about like s- um, maybe s- s- spending too much time looking at what other people are doing- Yes ... and not really considering, um, what has to go on behind the scenes to support that and to really deci- like, we see the outcome and it looks all, you know, pretty and polished and whatever, but really like does that, um, support how we wanna feel every day?
It, not just in our businesses, but also in our lives. Um, and the thing is like I think like as people that like to create things, it's easy to kinda get distracted by the next thing, and I'm definitely guilty of that. Um, I've been a, um, struggling a little bit with trying to keep a sort of one-to-many community going, and I realize like I, that doesn't match my energy.
Um Yeah,
Rachel Anzalone: yeah.
Toby Myles: And that's a hard thing to like realize, because I see so many people doing it successfully. Yeah. And, um, you know, I've had to really kinda take a hard look and, and say like, "I love doing the one-to-one work. That is where I am at my best, and I think I can serve my clients the best that way."
But it, it's hard because everyone's saying like, "Oh, you're gonna burn out and you gotta do, you gotta find a way to scale and, you know, all those things." So h- I mean, how do you help your clients kind of reconcile all those, all those distractions?
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing, first you made a really good point about like, oh, that doesn't actually match your energy.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And what we, and it's so funny 'cause we're both marketers, what we have to be mindful of is that marketers are really good at convincing you that there is a solution and they have it. Yes. I'm like, I know I have done it to other people. Uh-huh. And also- ... there is never one solution that works for everybody.
Yeah. And so for some people, the idea of scaling through a group program, like is the right answer. It is- Mm-hmm ... the right thing. Mm-hmm. And, um, and I feel like there are things that just, there gets to be... They're just in the lingo. They're in the, the way everybody's talking, and this idea of scaling-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm
Rachel Anzalone: um, sounds great, and the idea of like creating leveraged income, and it's bigger and bigger and bigger. But I will tell you that I have known people over these years with a, a business that's generating 300 or $350,000 a year in, in revenue. Mm-hmm. And they're paying themselves 250,000. And I have known people with businesses that are doing $5 million a year in revenue.
Mm. And they're paying themselves 250,000. Yeah. So the idea of like a bigger business with more people and more things going on does not automatically translate to more time freedom or more financial, um, b- for more wealth for yourself. Yeah. And so you can find a way to make the business operate in a way that's gonna work for you on the financial front, on the personal front, but you have to trust that it's gonna be what works for you.
Mm-hmm. And it's probably not gonna look exactly like what anybody else is doing.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, and that's- And that's okay, and I think probably you have to have a way to kind of remind yourself along the journey, like, "This is, this is why I'm going this direction, because these are the things that I said were important to me."
Yeah. "These are my core, core values."
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah. Yeah.
Toby Myles: In- interesting. That's so interesting. So, um, so we kind of s- like, skipped to how you work with your clients, but we didn't really, like, talk specifically about the, um, how you got from the restaurant to-
Rachel Anzalone: Oh, yes ...
Toby Myles: what you're doing now. I wanna make sure we go back to that.
Rachel Anzalone: That big leap. Um- Yeah, it really, like, you know, I, ag- in my high school years and in my 20s, I was working in restaurants and hospitality retreats, like, at the retreat, um, the resort, not retreat, uh, and doing kind of anything and everything you could possibly do. And in that time period, one of the things that I did was work for a startup coffee company that was growing and opening new locations, so we were, like, writing training manuals and writing operations manuals.
So I had my hands in sort of all of these things from, in that industry. Mm-hmm. And, like, every aspect of operations and marketing and all the things. But like I said, it was never what I really wanted to be doing. Um, and also, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to be doing.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And so I, somewhere along the way, like, I had always been interested in holistic health and wellness, and I had a couple friends who had businesses in that area, and so I was like, "I'll do that."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And so I started studying- And when I left my job for the first, like, like final, like last real job, Mm-hmm ... the business I started was in the world of holistic health and wellness.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And, um, started just doing kind of a little bit of one-on-one with people, and then decided to open a little wellness center, and, um, did that.
What I learned in the process of doing that was that I loved building the business more than I loved showing up and being in it every day.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: Seeing clients and answering, like, repetitive questions, and, like, that to me just felt like, "Oh my gosh, I cannot say this one more time. Please don't eat at McDonald's," or like, what-
you know, whatever it was. Um, but like, building the business and, like, doing the marketing and stuff, that to me was actually really fun. Mm-hmm. And so, um, it st- I started, like, coaching other pe- other people, like my peers, who were great practitioners but did not know how to have a website or how to get themselves published in a magazine or-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm
Rachel Anzalone: any of those things. So I started doing the business coaching stuff there. A few years later, I, um, was just in the middle of a, some life changes. I was getting divorced. The only thing holding me in the town I was in was this little wellness center that I really didn't love being in every day- Mm-hmm ... and this marriage that I was leaving.
And so I decided to leave, and, um, it was like a big leap of faith. I waited tables for six months while I was like, I had like a couple clients I was seeing remotely, and I was like, "I just have to figure it out."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And, um, and along the way, I, because I had been doing the, like, business and marketing stuff over these years, I sort of just, like, stumbled into this opportunity to do, uh, like freelance marketing launches and cam- Mm-hmm
you know, project management, and then into strategy and all the things. So I truly just, it was, I, it was a thing that I could not have chosen or navigated to. It just, the opportunity came up. I had a conversation. Mm-hmm. Next thing, I was just getting funneled all of this freelance work. Mm-hmm. And it was all in the personal development and coaching world.
And suddenly I had, like, a full-time freelancing business- ... just doing, running campaigns and flying all over the country at events and, like, all kinds of stuff. Um, and I loved it, and it was, um, it was really exciting. It was really, uh, fun, and the people were incredible. And I was coming from this place where, like, I had been running a $14 million restaurant operation
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm
Rachel Anzalone: and now I'm here to do this campaign, but I'm, like, looking around at the business going like, "I don't even think you should be doing this campaign." Mm. Like, let's... And so I just started pulling on threads and asking other questions, and for a long time I sold my marketing services, and then I sort of just was also the advisor, like, whispering in the owner's ear.
And then over time realized, like, oh, that's the real value that I bring. It's not-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Rachel Anzalone: doing QA on this landing page or you know? Yeah. Whatever, all those things.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Um, the real value I bring is saying, "Well, like, let's look at what the next six months looks like or the next year and make a plan."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: You know, that more of a strategic view. Mm-hmm. So, um, so it, it sort of has just evolved into that.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah. And so I bring the operations and the marketing and all of these things that I've done in the past-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: plus this, like, holistic wellness view of, like, but you're tired, so like- Yes ... maybe we should slow down for a minute, you know?
Yeah,
Toby Myles: yeah,
Rachel Anzalone: yeah. Um, and, and your team is ti- you have a lot of energy, but your team is tired out.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Um, so let's figure out how to make this work in a way that's more sustainable.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And, um, and married it all together to the advisory and consulting work that I'm doing now.
Toby Myles: That's amazing. I'm glad that you j- that you kind of landed there because, um, the one of the things you talk about is alignment and sustainability, and I- Yeah
I do think, like, it's so hard to, to see that in the beginning, especially when you're excited about something new, right? Yeah. And you go at a pace that is su- You know, you're, you're going on adrenaline and, you know, you're uncovering things and you're putting all the pieces together. Um, and you are probably the person that can see, like, okay, there is a crash and burn coming at some point.
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah. And, and I can see it because I've done it.
Toby Myles: Right.
Rachel Anzalone: Myself, you know?
Toby Myles: Right. Right. And so how do you... I mean, I, I would imagine it's your track record, but how do you, um, how do you get people to pace themselves?
Rachel Anzalone: It is, um, it is... One of the things that I've found is that there is, I think, this is a n- uh, this is a relatively new realization, but I think it's, like, a key underpinning.
I'll say I'll... This has been in the last year. Just like in any other venture in life, whether it is friendships, romantic relationships, volunteer work, your home, you know, uh, whatever it is that you're doing-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: there's an emotional maturity that's required to go, "What's mine to take care of, and what's theirs to take care of?"
Mm-hmm. How much capacity do I actually have?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Um, my- what are my values? What's important to me? Yeah. Am I willing to, like, slow down and look for a minute? And, um, for a long time, I, and I think it was, like, the industry of the, particularly, like, online business, was really perpetuating this, like, you can't stop, you have to go, go, go, go, go.
It was like- Yeah ... there was a lot of, um, feminine leadership that was packaging itself. It was like bro marketing but, like, wearing pink.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: It wasn't- Yeah ... really honoring the way that women do business or the way women operate or what their other priorities are in life.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And so, um, I feel like for a long time I was, like, really fighting a battle- Yeah
of trying to get people to see this a different way.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And what I have come to over the last year or so is, um, it's not my job to convince you. Just like you can't convince somebody to go to therapy or you c- you can't- Yeah ... you know? Like, they have to fi- people have to find their own way. Mm-hmm. But when somebody is ready to go, like, "I wanna do this for a long time-" Yeah
"and I'm willing to learn that-" Mm-hmm ... "maybe there are ways to do it differently than I'm doing it," then they're a good fit client for me. Mm-hmm. And I'm not trying to drag them across the line or convince them of all of these things when there are- Sure ... a million people out there, all of 'em marketers, con- telling them that, that they have to do this and they have to do this- Yes
and they have to do this. It's so convincing.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: But if you really sit and listen, you know, like, "Mm, yeah, that's not for me."
Toby Myles: Yeah. "
Rachel Anzalone: I'm gonna stay my path."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: You know?
Toby Myles: Yeah. And that's, like, that's what we should be able to say. A- and we should be able to, I think, understand that a lot of- A lot of, like, what we're hearing, this go, go, go, it's we actually should be doing the opposite and, like, having some patience and some strategy and being able to look past, like, the next month and the next six months.
And what came to mind when you were in- initially talking about that was, you know, with everything, a house, a project, a garden, a car, whatever, like, there's that honeymoon period and everything, like, is feels good and you're, like, in love with your business or your new course or your whatever. But eventually, like, that shiny thing is just kind of becomes kind of, like, just an, an ordinary thing, right?
And you might still love it- Yeah ... but now you're like, "How do I get that excitement and that motivation to keep moving it forward?"
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's a, um- Uh, it's not for everybody, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like, there are people who, like, it's in their nature, it's in their values that they wanna hustle, and they wanna- Yeah
go hard, and, um, and that's fine. That's great. Sure. Yeah. Um, I just think we shouldn't be trying to keep up with someone whose- Yeah ... values aren't the same as ours, you know? Yeah. Or feel the pressure that we're supposed to show up a certain way, or perform a certain way, or have built something within a certain period of time because somebody else did-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm
Rachel Anzalone: when, like, we can't possibly know what all the variables are.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And this idea of, like, slowing down, I know for me, I, and I know I'm not the only person, 'cause it's... I think I attract, you know, we attract people who are like us. Mm-hmm. Um, if I go chase something, I can almost guarantee I won't get it.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: If I make sure that I'm getting enough sleep, and I am taking care of myself, and I'm creating spaciousness- Mm-hmm ... then things just show up.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: When I go on vacation, I get a new client, like- Mm-hmm ... almost every single time. Yeah. And it's not because I sent out an email.
Toby Myles: Right.
Rachel Anzalone: It's not, you know.
It just, um, there is something to be said about understanding how you work-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Rachel Anzalone: and you know, what, what works for you- Mm-hmm ... and trusting that, and letting things evolve in their own time- Mm ... and not trying to force things.
Toby Myles: Mm. That's so good. So what would you say to somebody who, um, I, we both have already identified ourselves as, like, people who like to create new things.
Like, what do you say to those clients that have, like, 10 things they wanna create?
Rachel Anzalone: Oh, I know. It's so hard. Um, what I would say is, and, you know, everyone will have their own kind of, like, little way of doing this, but like-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: put them all out there, like, on a wall, on a piece of paper, like somewhere. Put all the 10 things.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And then you really have to evaluate, like, what's your priority in this moment? Yeah. If it's like, my number one priority right now is to generate revenue, then you look at those things and you go, "Which one's gonna generate the revenue the fastest?"
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yep.
Rachel Anzalone: And you do that, and everything else just waits, you know?
Yeah.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Um, if you, if that's not your concern and you're like, "I just wanna do the thing that's gonna be the most fun"- Mm-hmm ... then pick the one that's most fun.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: The worst thing you could possibly do is try to do two or three or four or five or 10 things all at the same time. You could ge- pick one thing, and in 30 days, like, whatever.
Bu- build it from end to end, have it out in the world, have it be producing.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And then I, and I know this is, like, the part nobody wants to do, especially if they're creative- is to have, like either yourself use AI if you want to, hire somebody, hire somebody to use AI, I don't know, to document it and create a system around it so that- Mm-hmm
once you've done that one thing, then it can just go, and you can move on to the next thing.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: You know?
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, that's really good f- advice. And I, I, I am that person, even though I know that i- I have to prioritize one thing. Uh- Yeah ... for me right now, it, my struggle, and I think I'm probably not the only one, is that, um, I'm writing a book.
I'm writing my memoir, and it has been- Yeah ... something I have said I'm gonna do for many years. And I finally said, "I really need to do this, because I know this leads to other things that I also- Yeah ... want," like speaking opportunities, right? But it's hard, because I'm having to pull back on the money-making things that I also wanna do, right?
Yeah. And so that brings a level of stress. It's like I have to be okay with the amount of work that I have now, my regular clients, while I focus on this book. Um, but I do think like then there's the motivation to like say, "Okay, keep, keep my nose to the grindstone, and keep chiseling away at it to get it done," so it's not something that just kinda lingers on for months, months, and months.
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah. I think you hit on something really key, which is like you're making a choice. Yeah. You're like, right? Like you're, you're looking at the situation and going like, "I can- I can ease off on the money-making things, like, 20%.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And I can take that 20% and put it towards this book writing. Mm-hmm. What I can't do is ease off on it 80% and be like- Right
"I'm gonna write a book this month," right?
Toby Myles: Right.
Rachel Anzalone: Um, and that's a choice based- Mm ... on your unique circumstances. Somebody else might be like, "I'm gonna do nothing. I'm gonna go be in a cabin and I'm gonna go write this book," right? Yeah. Um, and where I feel like we get tripped up often is somebody going, "I...
Writing this book's gonna solve all my problems."
Toby Myles: Right. '
Rachel Anzalone: Cause it's not.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Mm-mm.
Rachel Anzalone: It's a step in a direction.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Um, but if you ease off on the money-making things 80% because you think you're gonna go all in on this book and it's gonna solve some, some problem for you-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: and then you, you're 60 days from now and not only are those problems not solved, but now you also don't have any money - Yes.
now, now we have a problem, right? Yes. And so it's really measuring and weighing, like, what do I have to do?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: What do I wanna do? I feel like that is my approach, like, most weeks and most days. Like, what are the things that have to get done this week?
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And those get blocked, and then it's like, okay, and the rest of the time, what do I want to do?
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And sometimes I have a thing that three weeks, maybe four weeks ago, I had an idea for something. Mm-hmm. It's a diagnostic. It'll, it's a tool to diagnose what season your business is in.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And it was so clear and so straightforward in my head, and I am the person who's like, "I will knock this out in two days."
Yeah. And, but I, I, it, there was, like, more to it and more to it. Yeah, yeah. And it's three weeks later, and it's been like, okay. It's Monday, I cannot work on this again until Friday.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: Which means it... I am not emailing this out to my list for at least a whole nother week.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: You know? And so ha- you have to make those decisions- Mm-hmm
and adapt and adjust and, and, you know-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Rachel Anzalone: and be forgiving because I think one of the things we get really tripped up on is the people we're taking advice from- Mm-hmm ... often are people with a much bigger business, with a much bigger team.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And they will tell you to, like, get it done, ship it fast, yada, yada.
But, like, they're not doing all the work themselves.
Toby Myles: Sure.
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah. So if you're doing it all yourself or with a very small team-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: um, you have to take into account, like, I actually ha- on Thursday I need to do my bookkeeping for an hour. Like-
Toby Myles: Right ...
Rachel Anzalone: that has to happen.
Toby Myles: Right. Right.
Rachel Anzalone: So- Yeah ... you know?
Toby Myles: Yeah. I think too that, um, I, I kind of compare it to people who are giving, um, fitness advice.
Rachel Anzalone: Hmm.
Toby Myles: You know, because, um, like I'm supposed to be walking 10,000 steps a day, and I'm supposed to be getting, you know, 100 grams of protein and, um, lifting weights three to four times a week- ... and getting seven or eight hours of sleep. And, like, if you start to do the math, it's... Like, that's-
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah ... that's- It's a full-time job.
Like, plus mobility, plus... Yeah. Yes. You're like, "Oh my God." Yeah. Like, you can't possibly do it all. Mm-mm. So you have to just do the best you can.
Toby Myles: Yes.
Rachel Anzalone: And, um, I feel like a little bit that feels to me like one of the gifts of this era. I feel that pressure too- Mm-hmm ... and I'm like, "I cannot... How am I gonna get another 20 grams of protein in
Toby Myles: today?"
Right. I know.
Rachel Anzalone: Like,
Toby Myles: what?
Rachel Anzalone: I know. Um, it feels overwhelming. And then there's this place where it's like it can't possibly be done.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And so that takes some pressure off- Yeah ... of like I'm just gonna do the best I can.
Toby Myles: Do the best you can. Yeah. And, you know, that whole, you know, taking the advice of, from the gurus, the whole 10,000 steps things.
Like, now they're... People are saying like, "No, actually 8,000 is really good- Yeah. It changes ... and anything over that is like minimal."
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah.
Toby Myles: You know? Yeah. So-
Rachel Anzalone: It changes, as does most of the marketing- ... and business advice, right?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: What doesn't change is, like, the foundational stuff.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: Like-
Toby Myles: Yep ...
Rachel Anzalone: the very...
Which is why that is where I like to focus my energy and not on... Like, don't ask me what's trending. I don't know.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: I have no idea. Um, and I'm not even gonna try 'cause it's- Yeah ... the full-time job in itself keeping up with whatever is, like, the latest and greatest. But, like, the, the basic staple stuff stays- Mm-hmm
the same. Mm-hmm. Like, eat more vegetables. Yeah. Get enough sleep. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Toby Myles: Drink your water.
Rachel Anzalone: Drink your water. Yeah.
Toby Myles: Take creatine I think is now the thing.
Rachel Anzalone: I know. And then I had one doctor say like, "No, don't take..." Really? I'm like, "All right. I can't."
Toby Myles: Yeah. Exactly. So, um- It, what, like what is your favorite type of client to work with?
Like, what, what size business, um, in any particular industry?
Rachel Anzalone: So I, um, am industry agnostic, which drives everybody crazy. Mm-hmm. 'Cause that's not what you're supposed to do. But it's what I do. Um, however, I really work with like service-based businesses. Mm-hmm. So, um, my kind of, my dream clients in, are in like two categories.
Just really based on size, but at the heart it's always a founder-led company-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: who the founder cares about the work that they're doing in the world. It's like it's their skills that they're bringing. It's their-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Rachel Anzalone: thing that they're excited about, and they want to do it in a way that is meaningful, that is sustainable.
They're not trying to sell the business. It's the work they want to do. Mm-hmm,
Toby Myles: mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And they wanna do it in a way that allows them to have the life they wanna be living and be paying themselves well, and, um, so that it's sustainable. And maybe they wanna grow- Mm ... or maybe they just wanna do it better so that, you know, their profits are better, whatever it is.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: Sometimes that is a solo practitioner, um, and it's just them or them and a few team members, and I work one-on-one with the founder.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And sometimes it's a larger business where they have a leadership team, um, and it's, then it's more about the keeping the whole team on the same page in terms of the strategy- Mm-hmm
and really leading the strategy of the company.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Um, versus, you know, working one-on-one with a founder where it's like, "What do, what do you want to be experiencing- Yeah, yeah ... right now?" You know?
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: Um, and let's figure out how to get you there. Um, but that s- you know, similarly, I have... I can't even say I've really tried.
I have thought... I have launched over the years so many products and programs for people that were one-to-many.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: And the number of times I've been like, "Why don't I do this for myself?" Mm-hmm. I'm making these people hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: It does not excite me at all.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: Like, I want to be one-on-one with people. I love small number of clients. Like-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Rachel Anzalone: I wanna talk to you every week or two. I don't wanna be in a space where, you know, it's 10 or 20 or 30 or 100 people. Yeah. And we're having these, like, little, you know, like, uh, it, the depth and the, the meaning and the impact is what's most important to me.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's really well said, and that really resonates with me even though I have tried, m- you know, several times to have more of a group program and thinking like, "Oh, this time it's gonna be different." And, um, for a variety of different reasons, and there's nothing wrong with it. Some people love it, and that's where they thrive.
Um, but I think I've realized after trying it a few times that it isn't really where I do my best work. Um, so- I usually like to, um, ask you to, like, leave our listeners with a piece of advice, um, either for somebody starting out, somebody looking to make a change, somebody wanting to leave behind the, the thing that they did because they had to and maybe move into the thing they feel like they're really meant for.
Um, with all of your experience and all the things that you've done, is there some guidance or piece of advice you could give to that person on how to, like, make that transition?
Rachel Anzalone: I think the single most important thing that you can do is learn to listen to yourself, and that might be a different process to get there for lots of different people.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Um, but finding the way that helps you to be still, to listen to your intuition, to take in what you're hearing and filter it through discernment of is this for me? Is this not for me? Mm-hmm. Does this make sense right now? Does it not? And, um, the, the tricky thing there is that you're 100% gonna make mistakes, uh, and, you know- Yeah
like, uh, in all the years I can look back and go like, "Oh, yeah, I thought this was the thing, but really I was just caught up in the excitement of that," you know? Yeah. And that happens and, and then, you know, don't beat yourself up about it. You go, "Okay, I learned a thing."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Next time I'm gonna ask more questions.
I'm gonna wait. I'm not gonna get pressured into something or whatever, but, like, really learning to listen to yourself so that whoever you're learning from, whatever guidance you're getting, you can discern whether it's actually relevant to you or not, and, um, and make your own choices because there is no magic formula.
There's no script. There's no person who's gonna be able to say, "Follow these steps- Sure ... and you will get there."
Toby Myles: Yes.
Rachel Anzalone: As enticing as that sounds.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I, I think along those lines, and this is something I've learned the hard way, is that it is okay to, um, curate your l- um, list of, uh, people that you listen to and take advice from.
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah.
Toby Myles: Because it... you can get- conflicting advice, and it can be very confusing, and it s- can often, like, paralyze you, like now you don't know what to do. Yeah. Um, I have learned that the hard way, like, you know, to really, like, narrow whose list I'm subscribed to and who I follow online and who I engage with for my own sanity so that I'm not, like, all over the place, which I already tend to be anyway, and that doesn't bode well.
So, um, I, I think, like, you know, to, to find someone... I mean, it may take some trial and error, but when someone, y- you feel in alignment with them and they approach things the way that, like, feels good to you, I think, like, follow that person, listen to that person, and don't try to listen to everybody.
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah.
There's so much information out there. If you're trying to filter through all of it, you're, you'll make yourself crazy. Um- Yeah ... you know? And, uh, and- Yeah, there just, there's no, there's no right answer. One thing I did learn along the way is, uh, I have a couple of really good friends that I will say, "I'm thinking about this thing."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. "
Rachel Anzalone: And I wanna tell you all about it before I make a decision."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Because that allows some time to pass, and it allows for me... Sometimes when you're describing it out loud to somebody else-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Rachel Anzalone: you hear the thing that you don't hear when you're just thinking about it yourself.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: And it, it's n- they don't even need to say anything to
Toby Myles: you Yeah.
Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: and all of a sudden you'll be like, "Oh, wait a minute." Yeah. "Something doesn't make sense about this."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Um, but have that discerning friend who's l- or, you know, who's like, "Well, these are the questions I would ask."
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think, too, sometimes putting it out there, getting it out of your head and into somebody else's kind of orbit, um, I think you can, you can kinda measure your, um, commitment to that idea, right?
Because sometimes when you say it out loud and then you s- you know, s- kinda see it through someone else's lens, then you start to think like, "Oh, maybe I actually... It isn't as well thought out," or, "Maybe I actually don't wanna do this thing."
Rachel Anzalone: Yes, and, like, yes, and there is, you can also, you need to be mindful of who you say that to, and that- Mm-hmm
they have the ability to hold things for you in a gentle way. Yeah. 'Cause I think we've all had that experience of saying something, telling someone s- telling somebody about something we're excited about-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Anzalone: and they're the wrong person to be telling. Yeah. Yeah. And they just squash it. They don't get it, and then you feel terrible, and, um, and what this...
I mean, it comes back to discernment. It comes back to, like, is this somebody that I can describe this to and they will be supportive? Right. 'Cause that's what I need.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: Um, or is it somebody who I'm trying to get approval from? You know?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Anzalone: Uh, you know, like, what, what's their potential motive? What's my motive?
And, um- Yeah ... and those questions, you know, those, these, the... I feel like the women in my life, the, one of the things they do really well is they'll say, "What do you need from me right now?"
Toby Myles: Yeah. "
Rachel Anzalone: Do you need me to listen?"
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. "
Rachel Anzalone: Do you need me to ask questions? Do you need me to be supportive?" Mm-hmm. "Do you need me to poke holes in it?"
Toby Myles: Yeah. '
Rachel Anzalone: Cause, like, we can all do all of those things.
Toby Myles: Sure.
Rachel Anzalone: Yeah. And we need to know, uh, what we're looking for.
Toby Myles: Yeah. I think that's great advice. Oh my gosh, like, the... We've been, been talking for almost an hour. And I feel like I could keep asking questions, so there might be a part two in our future. Um, before we wrap things up, um, do you wanna tell people where they can find you and follow you online?
Rachel Anzalone: Yes. Um, my website is easeandacumen.com, and you can find me, um, on LinkedIn for sure, uh, just at my name, Rachel Anzalone. I am on Instagram also, @rachelanzalone. Uh, but mostly LinkedIn is the place, I think, where we're all connecting these days.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Rachel Anzalone: Yes.
Toby Myles: Yes, for sure. Well, this has been amazing. Thank you so much.
Um, I've really enjoyed the conversation, and I am so grateful that you, uh, said yes to coming on the show.
Rachel Anzalone: Thank you so much. I loved it. And yeah, anytime you wanna do a part two-
Toby Myles: Yes ...
Rachel Anzalone: or, or we'll have our private podcast. Yes. There we go. We'll just go for a walk and talk.
Toby Myles: Yes. There we go. All right. Thank you, Rachel.
Rachel Anzalone: Thank you.