Amanda Hofman shares her journey from corporate boredom to founding a modern merchandise company, plus why swag should be strategic, sustainable, and authentic.
Check Out These Highlights:
Amanda Hofman didn’t set out to reinvent branded merchandise, but her frustration with outdated swag sparked a new path. In this episode, she shares how she went from running a women’s networking group in New York City to co‑founding a company that helps businesses create merch people actually want to use and wear.
We talk about the turning points that shaped her entrepreneurial journey, why swag should reflect values instead of just logos, and how perspective helps balance the highs and lows of business ownership. Amanda also explains how print‑on‑demand storefronts can transform client and employee gifting into something personal, sustainable, and memorable.
About Amanda Hofman:
Amanda is the co‑founder of a modern merchandise company that helps businesses create branded products aligned with their values. She’s passionate about making swag strategic, sustainable, and something people genuinely love to use.
Connect with Amanda:
🌐 Website: https://gotomarket.studio/
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandagoldfinehofman/
📸 Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/gotomarketstudio
Stalk Me Online!
About Me: https://tobymyles.com/about/
Free Gift: The Nashville Method: 5-Day Storytelling Mini-Course
Subscribe to Her Origin Story on your favorite platform. New episodes every week with real, raw stories about the moments that started it all.
My guest today is Amanda Hofman, CEO and co-founder of GoToMarket, a branded merchandise company on a mission to change the way businesses think about swag. She's been starting things her whole life, from a knitting group in her 20s to a networking community for women in New York City to the business she runs now with her creative partner, Jesse. What connects all of it is the drive to bring people together and build something that didn't exist before. Today, we're talking about how Amanda found her way to entrepreneurship after realizing the corporate ladder wasn't for her, and why most company merch misses the mark.
Toby Myles: Hey, Amanda. Welcome to the podcast.
Amanda Hofman: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here with you.
Toby Myles: Yes, I'm very excited for this conversation. So I like to share how we know each other. Um, and I saw you on LinkedIn. Um, I think people in my network were already following you, so naturally you popped up, and I just...
First of all, I, I love your content because it makes me laugh. It's just so, like- Thank
Amanda Hofman: you ...
Toby Myles: I can tell there's, like, a real human writing- Uh-huh ... your content, and that always intrigues me. As a, a storytelling coach and a copywriter, I'm like, "Yes, there's somebody telling, like, the real deal." So that intrigued me.
And then actually what you, what your business is all about also intrigued me. You know, as somebody who has a kitchen cabinet filled with merch that I don't even know why it is actually still there. I will never use it. Uh-huh. Water bottles, for one.
Amanda Hofman: Oh, my God.
Toby Myles: It's like the top shelf is just filled with water bottles.
I think I think like, "Oh, if one of my friends comes over and they need to borrow a water bottle, I have tons," you know?
Amanda Hofman: I mean, that's the, uh, one advantage of living in Manhattan is that I don't have the luxury of, like, an extra basement or closet or drawer, so I have to be ruthless- ... about what I keep. But I think, um, it's really hard because it's like, "Well, what if I do need an extra water bottle?"
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. I know. And eventually it's like, okay, nobody comes to visit me. It's like, how many guests do I think I'm actually gonna have- Yeah ... that would actually- It's much like that, yeah ... not already have their own water bottle? So anyway, um, so that's how, that's how we first met. I was just fascinated by, by your posts and what you do, and we hopped on a call w- actually many months ago, um, and just got to know each other a little bit.
Um, I'm excited to one day hire you. Um-
Amanda Hofman: Me too ...
Toby Myles: s- it, it's happening. It will happen. I'm hoping it's this year. Um, so what I would love for you to share is if you could take us back to, like, either a moment in time, or maybe it's, like, multiple different moments in time where you feel like really kind of, like, put you on the path that you're on right now.
Amanda Hofman: That's a great question, and there were so many of those inflection points. Um, I would say that... I'll, I'll tell you this one. So I started in, you know, I started my job in corporate jobs. They were perfectly fine, but I was, like, bored out of my mind and very, very sad, um, just 'cause I was not being stimulated in the way that I wanted to be, and I wanted to be in control of my own day, and I didn't know what I wanted, and so I floundered quite a bit.
And then I started my first company, which was called Urban Girl Squad. It was a networking group for women in New York City. It was really fun. I ran that for six years, um, and I sold that company just as I was about to have my second child. And then I was home with my kids for a while, um, which I was very, which I wanted.
That was my, um, I was privileged to be able to do it and, um, I have no regrets about it. It was a really special time. But when my son went to kindergarten, I started having the, like, antsy entrepreneurship, like, "Oh my God, I need to..." I had started, um, like, overly crafting my apartment. So, like, I started making, um, like, light fixtures.
And my husband was like, "Maybe you should, like, go back to work-" Yeah "... because this is, like, a lot of energy for, you know, the apartment."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amanda Hofman: Um, so I was looking for a business to start, and I, all I knew was that I didn't wanna do events again. Mm. And, uh, just 'cause it didn't suit my lifestyle anymore. And I was really in this position of, like, was my first business a success, as a success, was that a fluke?
Or am I actually a successful entr- entrepreneur? Like, which is it? Mm-hmm. And I, I, I only knew all the things that I didn't wanna do. I didn't wanna do events. I didn't wanna be traveling all over the place. Um, I, I knew I didn't really wanna work for another person, but, like, I just felt kind of lost. I was exploring lots of different angles and opportunities, kinda not knowing what I was looking for.
And then I was at a party, um, and one of my husband's colleagues was telling me about print-on-demand and how he was using print-on-demand to print political T-shirts for a political client that he was working for. He was an analyst. And I was like, "What is that?" Mm. And he explained the process to me, and I was like, "Oh my God."
Like, businesses need swag, and- Mm-hmm ... the bulk printing industry is a disaster. It's just like, it's straight out of the '90s, and I know the '90s are back in style, but not in this way. Um, like, the way that companies are doing branded merchandise is this, like, stodgy, old, like, kinda gross, unsustainable, garbage-heavy, junk-filled way that both doesn't make sense and doesn't, it doesn't make people happy.
Like, what I have come to in the six, seven years that I've been running... I said six, seven. Sorry for all the parents of teens. Um- For all the people who have a business, it's like, um, swag is, like, this exciting opportunity, but it's so overwhelming.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amanda Hofman: Like, it's just- this big burden, and of course, living in Manhattan, we were talking about the water bottles, and like, I'm not storing boxes of T-shirts here.
Like, that doesn't make sense. Mm-hmm. So it all kind of came together for me pretty quickly after that, where I was like, "I wanna start a company where I can help businesses, entrepreneurs," actually businesses of all sizes, "create branded merchandise that does its job," meaning it is furthering the relationship between the company and the people who are receiving it- Mm-hmm
and they're doing it in a way that's cool, modern, sustainable, and like, not a huge burden to the company.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amanda Hofman: And that's, that conversation is what led to the beginning of what led to this business.
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah. And so then a print on deman- demand is fascinating. I remember the first time I heard about it.
I come from direct response marketing background for 15 years, and, um, and so we were involved in a lot of print on demand there. And likewise, um, putting things in the mail that, you know, every, every time a company wanted to send something in the mail, it's like, okay, first of all, what can you mail, right?
Mm-hmm. Because there's restrictions for what you can put in the mail, and things are expensive also to put in the mail, and ordering things from overseas takes forever, you know? Yep. So all these, like, logistical things, I... You know, they dictated what we selected, which I just felt like it was so limiting, and people were not gonna ever use this junk.
Yeah. I apologize to, like, all my colleag- colleagues and my boss and everybody who might be listening to this episode, but come on, like, no one was gonna use the little magnifying glass thing or the- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... the flat pen, although that was pretty cool. So, um, so how did you then go from, like, thinking, "Wow, that's a really cool concept," to saying, like, "I can make a whole business out of this"?
Amanda Hofman: Yeah. Well, I... It's funny, at the time, I knew nothing about branded merchandise or print on demand, but I knew what it was like to run a business that, where I wanted to have swag and kept running into problems again and again and again and again. Mm-hmm. And I was like, "I can be the person..." Like, I'm really good at talking to people.
I'm really good at solving problems. Like, I, I, at this point in my career, I understood my skill set, and I knew where I could bring, where, how I could help people with this idea. Mm-hmm. What I didn't know was I'm not a designer, and I'm not a tech person, right? So I was like... I, I, all of this thinking happened while I was running because that is the only time that I think clearly, it seems.
Uh-huh. So I was running in Central Park, and I'm like, "What I'm gonna do is reach out to my designer," who I worked with on my first company, who I adored- Continue to, to adore. She is my business partner now. And I was like, "I wonder if Jessie would do this with me," because I knew I couldn't do it- Mm-hmm ... by myself, and I knew I didn't necessarily want to just, like, have a team of designers.
Like, I wanted a creative partner. 'Cause the, the point of the vision is not just the print-on-demand, it's also, like, we're not just putting logos on things. Like- Mm-hmm ... we can do so much better than that, and we need to in order to stay relevant. Like, you think Gen Z is gonna wanna wear your logo embroidered on a polo?
Absolutely not. Like, that's not happening.
Toby Myles: Right.
Amanda Hofman: And, like most other generations don't want that either, unless they're, like, much, much older.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amanda Hofman: Um, so, uh, I asked Jessie about it, and what's really cool is that her kids are the same age as my kids.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amanda Hofman: And so we were in the same stage where, like, our younger kid had just gone to kindergarten, and it's like, you know, you have so much freedom in that moment.
You're like, "Oh my God-" Yeah ... "kids are in school, and they're in school, like, every day."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amanda Hofman: Like, wow. 'Cause, you know, preschool is, like, you know, they go to school, like, five minutes at a time, and then, like-
Toby Myles: Exactly ...
Amanda Hofman: every time there's a holiday, like you don't just have off- ... one holiday. You have off the day before and the day after.
Toby Myles: Yes.
Amanda Hofman: Like, who could possibly work-
Toby Myles: E- ...
Amanda Hofman: when that's happening? Right. Unless your kid is in daycare or you have a full-time nanny- E- ... which, you know-
Toby Myles: Yes ...
Amanda Hofman: didn't have either of those things. So, um, we were both in this, like, new era of freedom, and of c- this was 2020. Mm-hmm. So, you know... Actually it was- ... the fall of 2019.
And so then we, like, very quickly ran into COVID, which was not actually bad for business. I actually think that our business benefited because it was the, it was the era of Zoom. So suddenly I was like, in my last business I met everyone in person. I was always- Mm-hmm ... in person. And now I was like, "Oh, I can have, like, in person, in-person meetings with people without actually being in person with them," which is-
Toby Myles: Yeah
Amanda Hofman: we forget that that was revolutionary, but, like, no one did video calls before then.
Toby Myles: Yeah. That
Amanda Hofman: was, like, a weird thing to do. So- Yep ... um, w- and then the business has been building since then. You know, it was just me and Jessie in the beginning. Now we're a team of five. Um- Mm-hmm ... and now we really are experts in brand and merchandise.
When we started, we were, like, fully winging it. Um- And with just, like, good intentions and, like, a lot of energy and, um, hoping for the best.
Toby Myles: I mean, I don't know, I think you said the words that probably every business owner could say at some point, right? When you're just starting out, you are kind of winging it 'cause you don't really know, you know?
You don't... Y- you think you know, or you think you at least have a good enough idea, or maybe one or two people have, like, hired you for something. You're like, "Okay, I'm just gonna keep going," right? Mm-hmm. But, you know, I for one can say that my business is vastly different from when I started it, um- in mid-2019, right?
Um, my clients are different and what I understand about what people need, and what's going on in the world of, you know, AI kind of helping people to write copies. So I have had to make, um, a, a pivot here or there. So I th- I... That's why I laugh at what you just said because I, do we really know what we're doing?
I mean, we don't until we do.
Amanda Hofman: That's right. That's right. And let me just say, AI copy is such trash. I don't
Toby Myles: think- Thank you. ...
Amanda Hofman: it's any kind of threat. I mean, I think what people don't realize in the short term, they're like, "Ooh, I can make all this content," but, like, I don't think they're fully aware of how garbage it is and how little people want to actually read it.
Yeah. So like, yes, you can produce at a high level, like high quantity, and it looks like it's high quality, but if you actually take a minute with it, it's com- it's... it falls apart. Yeah. You can tell it down.
Toby Myles: Oh, yeah. For sure. And, and people are wise to, people are wise to it now. Um, you know, anywhere you show up, especially on LinkedIn, people are very wise to, like, "Eh, I'm really not interested in, in reading your AI generated content."
So, um- I mean,
Amanda Hofman: my best post, this is so stupid because I post about branded merchandise obviously, but like every now and then I'll get frustrated about something with AI and I post that, and that post, of course, does, like, 10X better than my regular posts. And I'm like, "Guys," "This is not my job. I'm just complaining."
Yeah. Um, but I just wrote something about AI comments and it, it, it was a fun post, so look it up- Yeah ... if you're curious.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. I will look it up. So, um, I would love for you to share, I know this 'cause we were on a call together- Mm-hmm ... um, and for people who are n- not watching this, although there will be, um, snippets of our video, um, you have a sweatshirt on that says Merch Mentor.
And so what you do goes far beyond, "Hey, let me... You can order something and it's gonna show up and it's gonna have your logo on it." It's like, like the opposite of that, right? Yes. There's so much more that goes into it, and so I would love for you to, like, share with our listeners your process and how it really is different than what people might think of as business merch.
Amanda Hofman: Yes. Thank you so much. So our whole thing is that we want to lead with your values, right? So your logo says only a tiny bit about who you are as a person, who you are as a company, what your brand values are, what you stand for, what your vibe is. Like, it's just this tiny little picture. Mm-hmm. So your branded merchandise is like this whole canvas where you can express what it means to be in your brand's club.
Like, what does it mean to be, like, drawn to Toby's copywriting? Mm. What does it mean to be, like, in this community or, like, this law firm or this dentist office? It's like we're all drawn to places based on how we feel when we see their branding, right? Yeah. Or a recommendation or something like that. So we try to capture, like, genie in a bottle the vibe of a company and, like, transform it magically into really beautiful, fashion-forward branded merchandise that...
Stuff that, like, feels cool, looks cool, feels authentic, and is something that, like, people actually really wanna wear. And then the other piece which you touched on is that we really focus on the strategy. Like, why are you printing what you're printing? Mm-hmm. So people will say to me, like, "Oh, I need, like, um, 300 of something that I can take to a trade show."
And I'm like, "Let's take five steps back."
Toby Myles: Yeah. "
Amanda Hofman: What is your goal here?" And if your goal is to get leads, printing 300 of something is actually not it. There are more powerful ways to use branded merchandise to create community and marketing and sales initiatives, um, where you're drawing in the right people and also repelling the people who are not right for you- Mm-hmm
all with strategic branded merchandise.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think, too, um, in my closet I have from several years ago, um, I put a logo which is actually no longer my logo, so there's that point.
Amanda Hofman: Yep, there's that too.
Toby Myles: Um, I, I got, I don't know, maybe, like, a dozen, maybe even two dozen little, um, cell phone chargers which-
Amanda Hofman: Uh-huh
Toby Myles: I'm pretty sure they don't work with anybody's cell phone anymore at this point. I still probably have, you know, a handful of them left, but I sent them out as client gifts. So yeah, my... I think my heart was in the right place.
Amanda Hofman: Look, and I don't mean to hate on the people who do that stuff because they really just, like, don't know another way, and they're like- Mm-hmm
"This is what I've been told to do." Mm-hmm. "I have to give something to everyone. I have this amount of money. I have this number of things I can get. Let's divide it. Here's the money per person. What can I get for $5 a person? Okay, cell phone charger." And you're like, "I've done it." Yeah. And it's just like, that's not it.
So what I recommend people do is to create a print-on-demand storefront, which is something my company does for people, but you can also do it on your own. And then instead of saying like, "Hey, everybody. Here's a T-shirt," or like a hat or a tote bag or a water bottle- Mm-hmm ... 'cause we all have such strong preferences- Mm
about what we put on our bodies and in our closets and carry around with us.
Toby Myles: Right.
Amanda Hofman: Um, you give people gift certificates instead. So you're like, "Here's $20, here's $50, here's $100 to my merch shop." Or you're onboarding a new client or you're onboarding a new hire or, like, it's somebody's... Somebody had a baby or it's their, like, work anniversary.
You're like, "Here's a gift certificate to the merch shop. You get what you want in the size, shape, color, style that you want it. And guess what? If you don't... If merch is not your thing, you can just opt out. Like, you don't need to spend this gift card." Mm-hmm. And so that way you're really meeting everyone's needs and you're meeting them where they are.
Um, and you know, your logo changes, the technology changes, guess what? So does your merch. Yeah. So, um... And yes, I generally advise people against tech merch unless it really makes sense for your brand, because once people have, you know, a charger or, like, a ring light, they just, like, don't need yours that says your name on it.
Toby Myles: Yes, exactly. Yeah. And it, and it really, you know, in hindsight it takes the focus, it puts the focus where it belongs, which is really on that client relationship, right? Mm-hmm. Like, I would like you to have this, um, as a way of celebrating something or saying thank you. The, the, the focus is on you, what would you like?
Not, like, the focus is on me so that you can put my logo all out into the world, right? Like-
Amanda Hofman: Exactly. Ex- that's actually exactly right in that we don't want people to feel like they need to be a walking billboard for us. We wanna welcome them into the values and identity of our company in a way that feels authentic to them- Mm-hmm
while also connecting to your brand.
Toby Myles: Yeah, for sure. So, um, I saw a recent post, um, that you shared about the butter club.
Amanda Hofman: Uh-huh. That was today, yes.
Toby Myles: And it, it, it cracked me up because I thought, like, I would totally wear that hat. Me
Amanda Hofman: too.
Toby Myles: And so there
Amanda Hofman: just- I also happen to shop from that brand.
Toby Myles: Okay. So there you go.
So two things about that. One, um... Well, okay. The first thing is that I think that really illustrates your point of, like, creating a sense of belonging, right? Mm-hmm. Like, I would be excited to wear that because I'm like, I love butter. Like, butter makes everything better. What, what can't you put butter on, you know, where it doesn't make it taste better?
Amanda Hofman: Also, it's funny to love butter. Like, that's-
Toby Myles: Right? ...
Amanda Hofman: that's a funny human experience that we're
Toby Myles: just
Amanda Hofman: like- Guess what? We like fat. Also, especially for people like us- ... who grew up in the, um, low fat era, I'm like- Mm-hmm ... yeah, we're not doing that.
Toby Myles: No. Exactly. I hear all the time, um, one of us, not me, likes margarine, like the fake stuff- Oh, my God
and I cannot stand it. I won't even use it if it's all that's in the house. Like, I won't. It just tastes gross to me, you know? But give me some good butter, oh, my gosh, melted like on vegetables or a bagel or whatever, and I'm just like this happy, you know, like-
Amanda Hofman: Yeah. It's that, it's the human experience, right?
Mm-hmm. But it's also, it's just celebrating their brand in a way. Mm-hmm. So I like to think of merch as a way to like let the people who already love you celebrate your brand-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Amanda Hofman: and, like, joy in your, have joy in the relationship that you guys have. And a lot of people- Yeah ... are proud of and passionate, uh, about the brands that they choose, 'cause we all have so many choices.
You know? Yeah. If I hire you to be my copywriter, guess what? I've chosen you over, like, a thousand other people in my LinkedIn inbox. Mm-hmm. So, like, let me tell you why I love Toby. Mm-hmm. Like, she's this and she's that, and, like, this is her vibe. Like, I feel that way about my trainer. Like, my- Yeah ... I have a trainer who makes, like, strength workouts for me, and she's a run coach for me.
And, like, I wear her stuff and I wear it proudly 'cause I ch- I chose her. Mm-hmm. There are a million other options. It's not like, it's not like it's, um, Spectrum, like my cable r- provider. Guess what? I did not have a choice in who my cable provider was. So, like, I, I don't have any relationship with them. I mean, not that, uh, not that, like, cable companies, if I had a lot of choice I'd be passionate about it, but maybe I would.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's that, um, that sense of community and sense of belonging to something bigger than yourself that you feel really passionate about. I ride motorcycles, and I used to own a Harley. And I had, like-
Amanda Hofman: Oh, yeah ...
Toby Myles: everything. You know, they're like the Masters at, like- Yeah ... there's absolutely everything you can get, jackets and T-shirts and purses and boots, and like all of it.
I still have some of it. It's
Amanda Hofman: also just so cool.
Toby Myles: It's so cool. And, um, and I still have some of it, and I would wear it all the time.
Amanda Hofman: But the point is, like, butter is not cool, but they made it cool-
Toby Myles: They made it cool ...
Amanda Hofman: by making it fashionable. Yeah. Actually, that's a great example, 'cause motorcycles you could totally screw up and it would still be cool.
Like, really you just need to touch on- Yeah ... the basics. And, like, culturally we're like, "That person's cool." Right. But, like, butter- Yeah ... butter you gotta do it right. Like, there's a lot of wrong ways to do- ... butter branded merchandise. And Kerrygold, which is who I wrote the post about this morning, did this, like, really trendy corduroy hat that says, what was it?
Buttercl- it said The Butter Club on it. The
Toby Myles: Butter Club. Mm-hmm.
Amanda Hofman: Nailed it. Nailed it.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amanda Hofman: Totally. Right? Like, everyone wants that hat.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. So for our listeners, go check out that post 'cause it's super cool. So i- in line with that, um, you saw this out in the wild, and so I, I'm curious about how that is.
Like, are you constantly, like- Like, you can't not notice merch everywhere you go- I see it all the
Amanda Hofman: time ... right? I also, like, I live in New York City. I see it everywhere, constantly. But I, it... But this is what it means to be an entrepreneur, right? Like, I chose this. I want it. Yeah. I'm interested. I'm noticing anyway.
Yeah. If I were to sell this business tomorrow, I'm not gonna stop noticing n- merch for the rest of my life. Mm-hmm. Um, and like, when I go on vacation, like, it is a joy for me. I'm like, "I gotta see the gift shop."
Toby Myles: Yeah. "
Amanda Hofman: Gotta see it," right? And I, I take so much joy in seeing, like, what, what looks good and what looks bad, and like, oh, what's interesting right now, and, and just, like, trends.
Like, for a while I was seeing people around the city wearing, like, ironically, unironically, I'm not... I'm actually not sure. They were wearing Kirkland- Mm-hmm ... like, the, the Costco brand. Oh. But
Toby Myles: just...
Amanda Hofman: But, like, for real, it just said, like, "Kirkland"- Yeah ... like, straight across. Like, no other design, just, like, a white T-shirt, black box with the red border, just said, "Kirkland," and I'm like, "I'm not getting something."
Like- Yeah.
Toby Myles: I know ... there's
Amanda Hofman: something I'm miss- there's something ironic that I feel out of touch with, but, um, I'm always... I just find it so interesting. Yeah. Like, I find branding fascinating.
Toby Myles: Yeah. It's funny 'cause, um, I live in Pennsylvania outside Harrisburg, and so we're kinda... For people that don't know, we're sorta in between Philly and Pittsburgh.
A little closer to Philly, but kinda, like, in between. And, um- There's a lot of people th- here that are into the Carhartt brand of- Mm-hmm,
Amanda Hofman: mm-hmm ...
Toby Myles: everything. I live down the street from a tractor supply where you can buy- Okay ... Carhartt anything. And I was never aware of it before we moved here five, six years ago, right?
But now I see it everywhere, and I think it is like people are saying, like, "I belong to this club- Uh-huh ... of people who, you know, we're out in the woods and we're hunting and fishing and," you know.
Amanda Hofman: Okay, so the really funny part of that is that, like, New York City hipsters have also started to wear Carhartt, but like-
Toby Myles: Oh
Amanda Hofman: but like, it means a totally different thing here. Yes. It's, like, very nuanced. Um, and I imagine that the people who genuinely wear Carhartt would be, like, horrified by the people in the city-
Toby Myles: Probably ... wearing Carhartt,
Amanda Hofman: have never literally touched dirt in their lives. Yeah. Like, would, would lay down a blanket and, like, have hand sanitizer on them sort of situation.
Um, so I find that really funny.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amanda Hofman: But yes, I totally know what you're talking about.
Toby Myles: That is, that's hilarious. I... That never even occurred to me. So, um, so one of the things you talk about, um, and I just wanna, like, shift gears a little bit because this, you've had a, a business before and you have- Mm-hmm
a business now, very successful, but it's not easy, right? Running a business is not easy. Um- Nope ... and you, and I wanna, and I wanna read this specific quote because I think it's really good. You say, "I always try to keep perspective. In business, your good days feel spastically exciting- ... and your bad days can feel Armageddon-like.
Perspective is essential." So I would love to kind of, like, talk about that a little bit 'cause that- Oh, yeah ... totally resonates with me. I know exactly both ends of the spectrum.
Amanda Hofman: Well, I would say that was much more true for me in my first business. Mm-hmm. My first business was very much like, if this business fails, I fail.
Mm-hmm. And if this business succeeds, I am a success. Okay. And there was no nuance there. Mm-hmm. Because it was my first time doing a business. I was also very insecure about the fact that my, um, like all of my friends went on to get master's degrees. They... You know, law, business, med. You know, just different master's programs, and I felt really behind.
Mm-hmm. I just, like, didn't know what I wanted to do, but I knew that there wasn't anything, um, that I wanted to do enough to get a grad degree program in and risk being in debt. Yeah. So I just... Like, entrepreneurship was my master's degree.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amanda Hofman: And I felt like my entire, like, self-worth was on the line with this business.
Yeah. And the other thing with entrepreneurship that I did not realize before I started a company is that- It's all your fault. Mm-hmm. If it's g- if it's good or bad, it is all your fault. So like- ... if, if like a vendor fell through or like an event didn't work out or, um, like, or something did really well or I had a huge success, like it was me.
I did it.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amanda Hofman: Right? So that, that is just, it's just really intense. It's really, really intense. So I will say one thing that I really enjoy about being an older entrepreneur, meaning that I feel like this is not new to me, is that a lot of that has leveled out and become-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Amanda Hofman: more even for me. And I think a lot of that also has to do with being a parent.
Like before- Mm-hmm ... I had kids, uh, I was just like my business was my whole life. It was-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Amanda Hofman: everything. Yeah. And that's not to say I, I, I do not wanna come off as like only having kids can have you, help you have perspective. That's not true at all. For me, that's how it happened, right? Like I had kids- Yeah
and then I was like, "Oh, I have an identity outside of running this business," and it's not just mom and it's not just bus- business owner, it's also all the other things that I am. And- Mm-hmm ... and I don't know if that just like comes with age or experience or whatever it is, but-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Amanda Hofman: now when something's not going well with the business, like certainly it fries my brain a little bit and it feels really stressful, but, um, I, my self-worth is not tied to it anymore.
Mm-hmm. And I have a business partner this time around, so I have another person who I can be like, "This really crappy thing happened," and like we can support each other and give each other perspective, um, and s- also celebrate. Like, "This really awesome thing-" Yeah ... "happened," you know? So-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Amanda Hofman: um, I, I would say for me, a lot of that is mitigated, but I absolutely stand behind that for, um, younger people and for people who are just starting in entrepreneurship.
It's, it's very-
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. I think that that perspective can come at different stages, um, in life, honestly, right? I've had multiple businesses as well, and so I know exactly what you're talking about. Um, I've closed businesses that, you know, didn't feel like they, that I didn't feel like I closed them on a high note.
Amanda Hofman: Mm.
Toby Myles: And maybe have looked back and said, "Oh, if only," you know, "I'd stuck it out for however many more months or years or ... " Right? But, um, but even now, for me, you know, at my ripe old age, I have like a brand new perspective. Like, I want spaciousness, I want ease, I want joy, and I want my business to feel good, right?
Like I'm ... My days of like the hustle and the, you know, just being so tied to the outcome are, are behind me happily, right? So- Yes. Yeah ... um, and so for me, it has come with age, right? But- Yeah ... I think you're right. I think it could come any time. Um, yeah. I think, I think younger or newer entrepreneurs are maybe more- plagued by just the weight of everything on your shoulders.
Amanda Hofman: Yeah. I mean, when y- especially when you come from a corporate environment, it's like you're just always on a team, right? Mm-hmm. So, like, it's always a team effort. So if something really does fail, like maybe you made the mistake, but like you're in y- you're holding everyone else's hand.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amanda Hofman: So, um, it, it, it's...
I would say that's probably one of the biggest shifts.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. And a good one. I think that's a good one. So, um, let's shift gears again a little bit, 'cause I'm always curious about this. When you were young Amanda, like little girl Amanda- Mm-hmm ... do you remember knowing what you wanted to do when you got older?
Amanda Hofman: Oh my God, I had no idea. I had no idea all the way up till like 27, I would say. Just a little girl. I had no idea, and it plagued me that I had- Oh ... no idea. Oh, wow, okay. Not as a child- Yeah ... but, um, I think when I got my first corporate job, and I just always assumed that I would be like a big business person.
Mm-hmm. But then when I was really in a company for the first time and I looked at the people who were above me, I was like, "Well, wait a second, I don't wanna be them."
Toby Myles: Yeah. Like,
Amanda Hofman: that was a real slap in the face, where I was like, "Wait a minute, if I'm good at my job, I get to be them?"
Toby Myles: Right. That's the reward.
Amanda Hofman: That's what I'm working towards? Mm-hmm. Like, I don't want that.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amanda Hofman: And that sucked. That was kind of crushing.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amanda Hofman: So yeah, I would say like, I think it's... I don't know, it's... It, it can feel, it can feel really like you're lost for a long time.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah.
Amanda Hofman: Um, and it was really only when I found entrepreneurship that I felt like the gears were, the teeth were catching, and I was like, "Okay, I'm, I'm where I'm supposed to be."
And I had glimpses of that. Like, when I was in college, um, I ran the crisis hotline.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amanda Hofman: And even though I didn't... Uh, like a lot of my peers from that ended up going into psychology. I was never interested in going into psychology, but running that organization-
Toby Myles: Mm,
Amanda Hofman: yeah ... gave me such life. And it... I, uh, I didn't understand at the time that it was the fact that I was running the show-
Toby Myles: Yeah
Amanda Hofman: and managing all these, like, moving parts, and coming up with a strategy, and like making sure the people on campus knew about us, and like training people. Like, all the things that you do when you lead a company. Mm-hmm. I was like, uh, like on a high from it. Like, I loved it.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. And
Amanda Hofman: then when it went away and I was, like, in this corporate job, I was like literally depressed from it.
Yeah. 'Cause I'm like...
Toby Myles: I
Amanda Hofman: didn't... I was- This is not who I am. This is not what I wanna be doing, but I don't know why and I don't know what I want to do differently. So it took me a long time. Yeah. I think it takes a lot of people a long time, but I think in my peer group, again, my friends were going to law school, they were going to business school.
They were, they were just, like, on clearer paths, and I was just, like, in this job I hated for, like- Mm-hmm ... years.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Amanda Hofman: So it was really, um, stressful to me.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because I always say, like, I'm a, a serial entrepreneur. Like, I have always been my happiest when I have been doing my own thing.
Mm-hmm. Um, it just, it totally suits my creativity, my personality. I don't like being told what to do. You can ask my husband. Uh-huh.
Amanda Hofman: Yep.
Toby Myles: Um, and I thrive, I thrive on that. I thrive on the energy of that. Like, "Oh, what are we gonna create now?" Like, what can I do now? And I have nobody telling me that I can't.
I do have more guardrails now, people in my community. Um, you know, my business bestie, who I can say, "I'm thinking about this. What do you think?" You know? And she's amazing. She'll just be like, "I don't know. Like, here's what I see, you know, could be wrong with that." Um, I have a coach also that I can bounce things off of.
And so, um, but the idea of, like, having a boss that can, like, dictate m- my success and how far I go and what I do day to day or what I can't do day to day, that, like, the thought of that actually makes me feel sick to my stomach.
Amanda Hofman: Yeah, same. And, but I think also there's this, um, I think, and this is kind of unrelated, but there's this, like, glorification of entrepreneurship as being this, like, um, great thing or, like, better thing or like, oh, they really made it there on, on their own.
And I just wanna emphasize here that, like, entrepreneurship is not for everyone and it's not objectively a better path. Right. It's just, I think you and I are similar in that we feel... Like, I feel like I'm wearing sandpaper when somebody's telling me what to do. Mm-hmm. Like, I, the way I bristle, like, I just-
as a rule wanna do the opposite, which is not a great personality trait. I'm not saying everyone should be like me. Yeah. But, um, entrepreneur- entrepreneurship, it's a hard path.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amanda Hofman: And it, like, suits you or it doesn't, right? Yeah. So, like, I have, um, this woman on my team who is so fantastic. She's so organized.
She is really good at being told, like, a whole list of things to do, and then she does 'em. And, like-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Amanda Hofman: I hope and I think that that, like, fulfills her. Like, that, that is great for her. Yeah. Yep. So, like, she's in the right spot and I'm in the right spot, right? Yeah. So I think it's really about finding that, um, that fit and, and really, like, knowing yourself.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. S- that's so well said, and I'm glad that you raised that- Yeah ... because I'm very careful when I say, like, "I'm made for this," uh, but I understand that it's not a this is better than that at all. It's what, what suits you best. Some people don't want those decisions, or they don't, they don't want to have that, um, uncertainty or unknown.
You know? They, they want to know, like, what's gonna be their income, what are they gonna be focused on, what are... Like-
Amanda Hofman: Fair question. Fair
Toby Myles: Fair questions, right? Yeah. Like, can I get health insurance? Like, that would be, you know, amazing. So, um, so you talked about your kids. You talked about having this business, um, or the freedom that you had when your youngest went to kindergarten.
I'm curious, what do your kids know or think about what you do?
Amanda Hofman: Oh, they're very involved. I mean, they... Well, I did all the branded merchandise for their school for many years.
Toby Myles: Okay. Okay.
Amanda Hofman: And so I was, like, the merch lady in their school. And so, like, they got to be a part of the designs and, like... You know, there's a joy about, like, designing something and then having the tangible thing.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amanda Hofman: And for me, and I think for them, like, you know, in, um, this was an elementary school, and so everyone, like, lives very close to here. And so I would see people all around the neighborhood, and my kids and I would be like, "Oh, look, there's that shirt that we designed. There's that shirt that we designed."
Yeah. And so I think it was very rewarding- Mm-hmm ... for them to see that. Mm-hmm. And obviously when we're on family vacations, I'm just, like, you know, taking pictures in the merch. And, um, my daughter just got into her top choice high school and, um, when we had the orientation, I was like, "We are buying the entire merch table."
And she was like- ... "Yes, we are." And then we just, like, went. We just, like, bought all the things. Yeah. So there's, like, a bit of a shared joy there. Um- Mm-hmm ... and I think they can see... I mean, I would hope they see that I'm, like, um, enjoying doing what I'm doing. And, um, uh... Yeah, I don't... Yeah, I... Did I answer your question?
Toby Myles: You answered my question. I'm curious, do they understand, um, the flexibility that you have that maybe other parents don't have?
Amanda Hofman: You know, that's interesting. I have talked to them about that, but I don't know that it, like, stuck or that they remembered it. Mm-hmm.
Toby Myles: Um,
Amanda Hofman: I think that's a conversation I'll probably have to have with them when they're a little bit older, to be like, "Here are the choices that I made so that I could- be home for you in the mornings, and like be making dinner at night, and like- Mm-hmm
go to your class, you know, be the class chaperone. And like, and I wanted to do those things, and that was like, it was for you and it was for me. And like, you know-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Amanda Hofman: this is what our family looked like as a result, looks like as a result of those decisions that I made. And, um, I think that it's something that they know, but um, implicitly, not explicitly.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. There-
Amanda Hofman: It is something I think that when they're like older would be the kind of explicit conversation that would stick more. I think if I had it with them now they'd be like, "Yeah, obviously." But I think that people need to see, kids need to see like what the alternative looks like in order for their current situation to make sense.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I, my first, um, I went to school for graphic design. Mm-hmm. Um, and I worked for a studio in DC for about a year and a half until at my ripe old age of, I don't know, I was 25, I thought, "I can do this better on my own." Uh-huh. And so I left, left and I freelanced for the next 20 years, right?
Um, and so I was home with m- and that was pre-babies, and then I was home when I had my kids. Um, I did have a babysitter that would come to the house a few days of the week so I could have blocks of time to actually- Yeah ... get work done. Um, but my kids didn't know that like other parents went to an office.
They didn't even know what that was, and I can remember taking them to a doctor's office in like a building, you know, an office building, and they're like, "Where are we? Is this the movie theater?"
Amanda Hofman: Oh my God, that's so funny. Well, I mean, my kids like, I think a lot, you know, we're in Manhattan, like a lot of kids had nannies, and so they knew that like, you know, at school pickup there were like, you know, half, half, maybe like 60% nannies, 40% parents- Mm-hmm.
Toby Myles: Okay. Yeah ...
Amanda Hofman: doing pickup. And so like they definitely knew that. Like they knew that alternative, that like I was there. Mm-hmm. They knew that like I was on the, um, you know, the field trip. And like- When, and, you know, our neighbors down the hall. I mean, in Manhattan we all live very close to each other, right?
So our neighbors down the hall had a nanny, and, like, those kids liked to come over here and play, right? Yeah. So it was... I, I think that's what I mean about it being, like, impli- implicit/explicit. I think that they sort of, like, observed that. But I think only later when they're, like, maybe having their own kids and thinking about it, thinking about, like, "Oh, yeah, there were, like, a lot of nannies around," and, like, what is...
You know, what, what was that like? Mm-hmm. Or, like, what do, what do they remember from being in houses with, like, babysitters or nannies versus parents and, you know, or does it not matter to them at all, right?
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think it's such an interesting perspective, and only time will tell as they get older and maybe start families of their own when they want to decide, like, how, how do they wanna- Right
you know, raise their family or be with their family.
Amanda Hofman: But,
Toby Myles: like,
Amanda Hofman: ultimately, um, the decision is for me, right? Mm-hmm. So I wouldn't want... I mean, I think sometimes kids might feel like, like a burden of responsibility around that. So, like, I like to make it really clear, like, "I did this because I wanted to do this to be with you."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amanda Hofman: As opposed to, like, "I couldn't go to work," not that you're suggesting that.
Toby Myles: Exactly. Yes, yes. "Oh,
Amanda Hofman: I could have had a different career if only I didn't have to do school pickup." It's like-
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah,
Amanda Hofman: yeah ... no, this is the choice that we made. And one thing I talk to them about more explicitly, we happen to have, like, a very, um, needy, or I...
Not needy, stubborn dog right now. We just adopted, um, about a year ago, and actually she's at boot camp right now because, like- ... I just, like, really needed help. Um, but the dog was more of a burden than the two kids put together, and they saw that, right? And so I was, like, very explicit with them about, like, we love having a dog, and we love all the benefits of having a dog, and so I, me, spend two hours a day at least taking care of this dog, like, on behalf of the family.
Mm-hmm. And, like, that is a trade-off that we and I are all making. And so, like, I make that very clear. Like-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Amanda Hofman: I'm doing all this work. It is worthwhile. Mm-hmm. But, like, let's not, not... Let's not pretend that this is not a lot of work.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that applies to so many things in life, right?
Like, it's, it's, you know, as they say,
Amanda Hofman: if you're- Also, like, I don't want them to take for granted, like, the real work that goes along with-
Toby Myles: Sure ...
Amanda Hofman: these benefits, right? Like-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Amanda Hofman: and, um, you know, trying to make, like, women's work more visible, right? Like- Oh.
Toby Myles: Right.
Amanda Hofman: I mean, truly, right? Like, to just to be like- Yeah
"Remember, I buy the dog's food. I give the dog food. I take the dog to the vet. I walk her every day. Then I walk her again. Like, if she, like, needs something, like, guess what?"
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. "
Amanda Hofman: I'm taking care of it," right? So- Yeah, yeah And, and I chose that, and I want it- Mm-hmm ... and it benefits all of us.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
So, um, a couple things before we wrap this up. Um, if somebody is thinking about starting a business maybe as a side hustle, um, maybe diving right in, what would be your best piece of advice?
Amanda Hofman: Um, okay, I have two. One is if you have a day job, keep it so that you can build without the pressure of, like, needing to make money instantly.
Mm-hmm. So that you can sort of, like, follow your heart and, like, get honest feedback without the actual panic of, like, revenue. Mm-hmm. So I would say that. Second is to solicit negative feedback. So what I mean by that is you can... Your family and friends are always gonna tell you that it's a great idea, and you should totally do it.
Like- Mm-hmm ... you go, girl. Right. Yeah. You can
Toby Myles: do it.
Amanda Hofman: And that's very nice, but you need somebody who's gonna be like, "Uh, isn't that business idea just like this other thing? Like, why wouldn't I just do the other thing?"
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amanda Hofman: And then you're gonna have to defend it and say, and, like, not be precious and say, "Okay, well, mine is different because of X, Y, and Z."
Mm-hmm. And then the person might say, "Oh, that's a great idea," or they might be like, "I don't care about those things." In which case, then you need to go to another person and say, "Do you see these same objections?" Right? Mm-hmm. And one thing that I've heard people say is like, "Oh, I don't wanna tell people my idea 'cause they might steal it."
Guess what? Running a business is so hard, no one's stealing your idea- Right ... and doing it, like, better than you. Like, unless we're talking- Yeah ... about, like, a very specific technology that you have developed or something that's, like, related to a patent, for most people, you've gotta share the idea and share it widely.
And, like, I don't even mean on social media. I mean, like, have real conversations with people where you're practicing the pitch- Mm-hmm ... because you need to know if, if, most of all, if you're comfortable pitching it, and then you need to know how people are responding to it. Are they confused? Are they excited?
Yeah. Are they like, "Huh, I don't think I need that"? You need to hear that. Yeah. And, like, not to let it deflate you, but, like, you need to get comfortable with that kind of thing.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's such good advice. I've had over 50, almost 60 interviews so far, um, and everybody always gives great advice, but that piece of advice-
is just, it's gold. And I would say along with that, um, if you want to use ChatGPT to help you, just don't stop there because ChatGPT is gonna tell you it's, like, the best idea ever and-
Amanda Hofman: Mm-hmm ...
Toby Myles: that could
Amanda Hofman: take- ChatGPT is not at all what I'm talking about. No, exactly. You need to, like, get
Toby Myles: this out
Amanda Hofman: to- To people
a real critical human-
Toby Myles: Yes ...
Amanda Hofman: who's going to be honest and tell you, like-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Amanda Hofman: you know. And they might just point out, like, "Oh, this company already does that." Yeah. And you can be like, "Huh." Didn't know that. Yeah. You know? And that doesn't mean you need to stop. It doesn't mean that you need to quit. But you do need to be aware of these things because- Mm-hmm
the longer you hide from them, the more you're investing in something that may or may not work.
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah.
Amanda Hofman: You should have that answer sooner rather than later.
Toby Myles: I agree. I agree with that. That's so good. Such good advice. Okay, where can people find you, follow you, and connect with you?
Amanda Hofman: Such a great question.
So I am most active on LinkedIn, as Toby mentioned earlier. Um, my last name is Hofman with one F. That is the one thing you most need to remember about me. So you can find me there as Amanda Hofman, or you can go to our website at gotomarket.studio. Um, you can also find us on Instagram, gotomarketstudio.
Um, and you can reach out to me on any of those platforms, and I will personally write you back.
Toby Myles: Awesome. Oh my gosh, Amanda, thank you so much. I am so glad that we found the time to do this. You too. Um, this has been such a fun conversation, as I knew it would be, and I really appreciate you being a guest.
Amanda Hofman: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me.