Amy Hager’s origin story begins on the racetrack at age nine and winds through radio, nonprofit leadership, and consulting. In this episode, we talk about how curiosity and community shaped her path, why she believes business is one big experiment, and how she helps entrepreneurs grow from a place of joy.
Check Out These Highlights:
Amy shares how racing go‑karts as a child gave her early lessons in competition, sponsorship, and community; lessons that still guide her work today.
She recalls launching a speaking tour of six elementary schools at age 10 to show kids they could do big things right now, and how that visibility led to a radio show at 13.
We talk about her 18 years in the nonprofit association world, where she learned the power of building community around larger movements, and how that experience shaped her consulting work.
Amy explains why she sees entrepreneurship as one big experiment, why sales is really just a conversation, and how social media was meant to be social.
Her story is a reminder that curiosity, openness, and joy can be the foundation for sustainable business growth.
About Amy Hager:
Amy Hager is a sales strategist and community builder at Joyful Business Revolution. She helps entrepreneurs refine their messaging, marketing, and positioning so they can grow their businesses from a place of joy and connection.
Connect with Amy:
🌐 Website: https://joyfulbusinessrevolution.com/
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-hager-cae-iom/
💬 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amy.hager.58/
🎁 Free Resource: https://joyfulbusinessrevolution.com/salespagehelp/
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About Me: https://tobymyles.com/about/
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Okay, you guys. I am so excited for this episode, and I think you're gonna love it. My guest today is Amy Hager, a sales strategist and community builder at Joyful Business Revolution. In this episode, we talked about how Amy's origin story starts at age nine racing go-karts, and how that took her from a radio show at 13 and a speaking tour of six elementary schools to the work she does today, helping business owners grow from a place of joy. Amy's curiosity is contagious, and it's one of the things I loved the most about our conversation. She says yes to what sounds interesting, treats business like one big experiment, and knows the path is never a straight line. We also talked about why sales is really just a conversation and why social media was meant to be social. Are you ready? Let's get into it.
Toby Myles: Hey, Amy. Welcome to the podcast.
Amy Hager: Thanks for having me today. I'm excited to dive in with you.
Toby Myles: I'm so excited. Uh, sometimes I like to give a little backstory, and you and I, um, w- we're busy. We're both busy, and we both have lives that go on. We were laughing the last time we finally were able to get on a call, 'cause we both had, had both had some things come up, and it was kinda like, phew, we made it.
Right. And I was so excited that we did, 'cause it was one of the things where it's like, uh, like I could've missed this, and I would've just missed out on so much. Like, we had such a great conversation. Um- Yeah ... so I think today is, we're just gonna kinda continue on with that. Um- Yeah ... and so, um, I usually kick things off by asking my guests to take us back to a moment in time that they feel like really kinda put them on the path that they're on right now.
And you divulged something in our last conversation. We didn't have time to get into it, so I want to make sure that we talk about racing go-karts, and I will let you decide if that's where we start. But just know, we will get to that at some point.
Amy Hager: Yeah, I think we'll definitely get to that at some point, and I think there's a common thread through everything I've ever done that I've discovered through racing go-karts as a nine-year-old.
Um, but I really think that what has put me on this path that I'm on right now is, to really be honest with you, staying open to new experiences and being really, really curious.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: Um, my, my husband's in the Navy, so we lived on the West Coast before the East Coast. And when I moved to the West Coast, I, I had no idea what type of job I was gonna get.
I had spent my, you know, younger years racing go-karts, in radio, a local celebrity where everyone knew my name and everyone knew my face. And I was moving to a community that I knew n- I knew no one. I knew my husband, and I had kinda met a couple of the other guys from his boat. Um, I'd been there a few times, but, you know, as a visitor, not I'm gonna live here.
And so, I really think that when, when I made that move and that, that big transition from one large book of life to the next book- I, why say no to something that sounds interesting and fun? Mm-hmm. And so I started working at, like, a... This was back in the day when, like, plasma TVs were $40,000. So I started to work at this commercial plasma TV projection t- kind of, like, screen company selling this stuff and supporting a salesperson.
And, yo, not in a million years would I ever do it again, but I'm really, really glad I had that experience, and it really gave me that chance to say what I do like, what I don't like. And so once I found the next thing that I loved, I ended up working at a garden center. I do not have a green thumb to save my life.
But I really loved that this garden center wanted to build community. They wanted to bring people in for events and classes. And so I did all their marketing for that, and that led me to connect to a local publisher. And that was the, the foundation of where being curious and being open to opportunity really, really helped me go far.
Because I did all of their PR. We had a 40 Under 40 program. My goal was to get at least 100 people nominated every single year in a very Navy-heavy community. So entrepreneurship isn't the focus in that area.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: And, um, you know, belonging to a lot of chambers, a lot of, you know, local home builders association, realtors association, that exposed me to that nonprofit kind of association chamber world.
And when we moved to the East Coast, we moved to DC, and I was like, "Well, that's the mecca of the non- Yes ... profit area. So I'm, I'm gonna try this because I really liked being a member, a volunteer, and so I wanted to see what it was like working on the inside. And so, you know, I spent 18 years working in, in the nonprofit association chamber space as a W-2 employee.
I've done every single role you can imagine besides accounting, 'cause I don't... I'm not the best at math. And I think what really taught me there is- That when we're building a community amongst a larger initiative or a larger movement that isn't just about ourselves and not just about our businesses, it's amazing what can happen.
And so when I decided... I had done a little consulting while I was in the nonprofit association space, and when I decided I could not work for another association, ha- working for a board of directors was on that list of things that I don't love.
Toby Myles: Mm.
Amy Hager: I was like, "You know what? I'm just gonna go out and help people, and I'm just gonna start consulting, and let's see where this goes."
And I haven't looked back, and that was 2019, and I can't imagine not working with hundreds of people doing hundreds of different things- Mm-hmm ... in a year. And so I think that, that being open, that being curious, and knowing that life and business and entrepreneurship is one big experiment. Some experiments are gonna not turn out so great.
Right. And some are gonna really fly.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. And
Amy Hager: so that's, that's where it's got me today, and I think, you know, being able to support people who are in business, who are growing their businesses, who have gotten past that, I'm gonna say, newbie stage- Mm-hmm ... where at least they have income coming in from referrals and their network.
I think that's the best way to start a business. And then figuring out, where do I go from here? What's the cold audience, and where do I find my cold audience? And really answering those questions based off of your energy, your heart, not what you think you should do or what you think you have to do.
That's building that business from a place of joy- Mm-hmm ... and instead of building yourself into a prison as a business.
Toby Myles: So- Yes, for sure ...
Amy Hager: I really think, like, all of that, just being curious, being open, and let's, let's see what happens because it really is just a big experiment- Mm-hmm ... ha- has really landed me to where I am, and that's what I really get to help people learn about themselves and being in business.
And I love to blow up people's dreams of like- ... it's this way, and this is the line and the path that I'm going. And I'm like, "It's not gonna be a straight line, my friend. It's gonna be up, down. You may curve. You might take- Mm-hmm ... a couple steps backwards."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amy Hager: And that's A-okay, as long as you're experiencing the journey truly, learning more about yourself, and then making those decisions based off of what you know right then from now.
Toby Myles: Mm. Mm-hmm. I think that's, it's so good because, you know, we've all heard of so many stories of people that just followed the path. Like, they had the path laid out, and I'm gonna do... I'm gonna go to college, and then I'm gonna get this job and this job, and I'm gonna climb the ladder, and it's very vertical, and every step is outlined.
And I am not knocking that whatsoever, but- No ... that wasn't your path. That wasn't my path either. I always say, like, I did the n- what felt like the next right thing for me to do. Right. Never in a million years could have planned where I would end up. No. Uh, and my last boss before I started my business said, "Oh, I love how you keep reinventing yourself."
And to me, it never felt like reinventing myself. Yes, I was- Yeah ... doing something different, but I was still taking everything that I had already experienced and bringing it forward to the next thing. So- Right ... you know, it sounds like that is very much your mindset too. It's like, oh- Yeah ... like, what's the next thing?
And also, like, how fun that you you get to say yes to so many different things. Like why- Right ... box yourself in?
Amy Hager: Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I do think that when you are in business and finding the thing that you really, really love doing, and knowing that what you love doing today in 2026 might not be the same thing in 2028.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: And it's okay to refine. I think we're all always refining. And, you know, some people say they're pivoting or whatever it might be. And I'm like- Yes ... this is just part of my journey. Like-
Toby Myles: Exactly. It's all part- You know? ... of it.
Amy Hager: Exactly. Exactly.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amy Hager: Um, but I do think there are things that I've carried from a nine-year-old go-kart racer to, you know, being a woman in my 40s in consulting, owning my own business, helping other people with their own businesses, and things along those lines.
And so you do, I think, find some commonalities and some themes within yourself that you're like, "Yes, this is what I love about this." I was just talking to a woman who's a nurse, and she really wants to have a coffee shop in town. Mm-hmm. Those are two really different things
Toby Myles: Yes.
Amy Hager: Why? And I didn't ask it to her that blatantly.
I literally had met her 30 seconds, uh, into the conversation. I was like, "Well, why, why a coffee shop? Like, what's inspiring you?" And she really wanted to be able to connect the community, and to bring people together, and for her to better know the people in her community.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: Well, that's exactly what she does as a nurse.
Toby Myles: Yeah. You
Amy Hager: know, she's helping them heal and be healthier. Mm-hmm. But there was that, that underlying or that undertone between the two different worlds. Mm-hmm. And, and so really reading, like, through her business plan and her mission statement and stuff, I was like, "You love bringing people together and making their day just a little bit better."
Yeah. And she's like, "Yeah, I kinda do." And I was like, "That, that's the common thread, my friend."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amy Hager: So I think we all kind of have that foundational common thread through all of the things we may be doing.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: And it's really nice when we can reflect and, and realize those.
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah. But sometimes you don't necessarily see it right away- Yeah
or till many steps down the road. There's a Steve Jobs quote, and I butcher it every time. I really should just have it written here. But it has to do with, like, connecting the dots, you know? Yeah. Like, you can't connect the dots forward. You can only connect the dots- looking back, right? And then you can say, "Oh, yes, they- That makes sense now
these things were all connected." Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I love, I love the piece you say about, um, staying curious, because I feel like it applies to so many things in our businesses, in our lives- Mm-hmm ... um, in networking. Yeah. That is the one thing that can be a turn-off for some people about networking- Yeah ... and meeting new people, is always feeling like the person on the other side is, is gonna be pitching, as opposed to just-
Amy Hager: Right
Toby Myles: being curious. Being curious. Like, we might meet each other. I have no idea if we'll ever work together or be a fit, but-
Amy Hager: Right ...
Toby Myles: I'm the person, like, I always joke that I'm nosy. A, a nicer way to say is curious, but I am also nosy. Like, I look out- Yeah ... my window and look at my neighbors. But I, I love to know, like-
Amy Hager: Right
Toby Myles: how, what makes you tick? How'd you get here? How'd you get to the work that you're doing? Yeah. It's the whole reason why this podcast exists. So-
Amy Hager: Exists, yeah.
Toby Myles: I, I, I love that that is just, like, kind of an innate part of your personality, and I would think also it really helps you with your clients, to help them to kind of stay curious.
Can you talk about that a little bit?
Amy Hager: Well, and I think that, you know, sometimes I have to give this, like, little pre-statement of, "I'm asking you these questions not because I'm judging you, not because I think you're doing things wrong," quote, unquote, wrong. "I'm asking you because if we don't ask questions, we can't have conversation."
Mm-hmm. "And if we're not having conversation, we're never gonna get clear."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amy Hager: Because you're gonna stay in that beautiful brain of yours, and that sucker is powerful and sometimes- ... terrible. Right? Yes. And so when we can really articulate... And, you know, it's, it, it's always a work in progress. Mm-hmm. And when I'm working with clients, especially on their messaging, like- Mm-hmm
I think the foundation of the work that I do is messaging, marketing, and positioning. Through that, we find out all these other crazy things out about you that you can really share. But I think the biggest thing about entrepreneurship, especially in today's AI day and age, is sharing your bigger why.
Mm-hmm. People wanna buy from people. We wanna buy- Yeah ... from humans. I don't wanna buy from an AI bot.
Toby Myles: No.
Amy Hager: And so really if you can be open and really share... And again, you don't have to be an open book. You don't have to share everything. There's things- Right ... that I don't openly really talk about. In all honesty, I haven't really told the go-kart racing story- Until about two years ago.
Mm-hmm. And I just happened to be telling somebody, a really good friend of mine who I've been friends with for 15 years, and she's like, "You've kind of dropped this here and there." But she's like, "I didn't realize that that consumed your childhood." Mm-hmm. It, it did.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: It was, it was my life- it was my livelihood at the ripe old age of nine.
Um, and so I've really embraced it and started to tell that story. And, and really that reflection period, and you kind of said this already, right? Having that time to kind of reflect, I'm like, holy crap, like, that, that really is that foundation connector of this is when I started doing what I s- what I do now.
Mm-hmm. This is when I started to see value alignment is really, really important when you have partnerships and sponsors and clients. And wow, I had no idea that this would still be playing such an important role in my life this, you know, in this journey.
Toby Myles: Sure. Yeah. I love that too because you really touched on something that I talk about often with my clients.
I'm a storytelling coach and, um, I'm actually getting ready to do a full one-day workshop in Oct- in October where I will work with a group of women to build what I call their story hub where they, they pull in stories that I consider to be essential stories every business owner should have. And you and I talked about this a little bit- Yeah
when we met before. Yeah. Right? And when you talk about the go-kart story- To you it's just, it just was your life. It's just something that happened, right? It happened. But somebody on the outside looking in was like, "Wow, that sounds fascinating." And you might just think it's just ordinary. It's like just something I did, right?
Right. But then, but you talking about it in that way, it's like, oh, I, I wanna hear this. Like, tell me more. Right. And I think that we just naturally think like our lives are just... I'm not gonna say you think your life is boring, but, you know-
Amy Hager: Right, but I hear what you're saying ... it's a thing.
Toby Myles: You know what I mean?
Yeah,
Amy Hager: yeah.
Toby Myles: Like, whatever. All the things that we've done, we're just like, "Oh, yeah, it was just something I did." But, like, no. To everybody outside, like no, that sounds fascinating. Yeah. Tell me more. So this is probably a great segue for you to like- Right ... let's talk about the go-karts.
Amy Hager: So, um, so I grew up kind of a little motorhead, and my dad, you know, fixed cars.
He had an auto mechanics store, I would say, or whatever, shop. He also sold lawnmowers and snowmobiles. So, I mean, I was just around things with engines. I think I could probably drive a snowmobile better than I could ride a bike as a child. And, um, so he got me this yard cart, and I really, really loved it.
And the neighborhood kids who also had yard carts, we all would race go-karts against each other and basically in the backyard. And he was like, "Do you think you wanna, like, do this for real?" And I grew up in Iowa, a lot of corn fields. There are a lot of race car tracks, and we grew up going to the races.
And I was like, "Yeah, of course I wanna do this." And, you know, I had this big dream of being a NASCAR driver when I was nine. And that's how you start if you're gonna be a NASCAR driver. You have to drive go-karts when you're a tiny little child to gain the skill in order to do this as an adult. So I was like, "Heck yeah.
I'm nine. I'm going after my dream. We're doing this thing." And so my dad bought like a 1980s used go-kart that had been wrecked a few times. Was not great, and the biggest piece of crap ever, 'cause he didn't wanna invest money just in case I got scared or I didn't like it. And so I remember the first year that I raced, um, I never won.
I was mostly in the back. Loved it, though. And I think what I really, really loved was not only like getting out on the track, and I'm a very competitive person, and going fast- Um, I loved the community. Mm-hmm. And I didn't know there was that. Like, I didn't realize when I say, "Yes, let's race go-karts," that I would...
I mean, I knew that I'd have fans, but I didn't really realize what that meant.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: And so, you know, we decided, all right, Aimee's serious enough. We need to get sponsors so we can buy a real go-kart, not a piece of crap from the '80s. And, um, so my dad's like, well, you know, there was a couple people that...
Our chiropractor was one of my first sponsors- ... who also happens to be my now husband's uncle. So, like, our families are very, very connected. But, um, getting sponsors from people that I didn't know. And we knew that the guy who owned the Hard- Hardee's in our town went to the big car races, and he sponsored big cars, but he never had sponsored a go-kart.
And so my dad dropped me off at, like, his office one day, which was right next to the chiropractor. And he was like, "Hey, go see if Stan's in there, and talk to him and see if you can get some money out of him for, for tires." And I, I was like, "Okay, sure, Dad." I think I'm
Toby Myles: 10 at this point. Yeah.
Amy Hager: So I go in, tiny little 10-year-old.
Stan is a very large man, and like, I'm like, "Hi, Stan. I'm Aimee." He's like, "I know who you are. You're in the news." And I was like, "Okay, cool." And so I was like, "You know, the season's coming up, and we bought a new go-kart. We need new tires. Like, I'm really dedicated to doing this. And the thing that I'm really excited is I have all of these fans and these followers, and so you're going to get a lot of visibility by having your sticker on my go-kart."
And he was like, "That's great." He's like, "But why do you do this?" And I was like, "Well, what do you mean? I love to go fast, and I love to compete." And he's like, "Okay, let's get..." And so he just, he was the first person to probably challenge and send me down the why train.
Toby Myles: Mm.
Amy Hager: And I don't remember, like, all of the conversation.
It was very, very, a long time ago, and I don't think at the time I really thought it was gonna be one of those core memory things, so I-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Amy Hager: I don't have a knack to remember this conversation with Stan. But it really, him questioning my deeper why.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: And, you know, I told him, I was like, "Well, I started doing this when I was nine.
I'm now 10. I want kids to know they can go after their dreams, and I really want to be able to show the kids in my class that, you know, you don't have to be an adult to do big things. You can do big things now." And so the second year that I s- was in go-kart racing, I went on a speaking tour- Wow ... in my hometown at the six elementary schools.
Because I wanted to tell the nine-year-olds, I think you're in third grade at nine, if I remember.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amy Hager: I wanna tell the third graders, and I was a fifth grader, yep, this all makes sense, again, I'm not great at math, that you can do whatever you wanna do. So my dad took a day off from work, and we went to each of the schools.
We brought the go-kart so other kids could sit in it and see a go-kart. I mean, not every kid grows up with a bunch of engines around, so-
Toby Myles: Right. Mm-hmm ...
Amy Hager: you know, the only thing that they've ever been in is the bus or their parents' car. And, um, y- I, I gave a speech at each of those elementary schools, and we ended at my elementary school and had, like, a big ice cream social, and, like, the school made a big deal out of it.
And I was like, yes, this is, this is what I'm, I wanna do. I wanna help other people realize they can do what they want to do. And part of that was people then started to come to the races, and they had never been before, so they started to follow me. Mm-hmm. It didn't matter if I won or lost that day.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amy Hager: I had people that were on, on with me no matter what because I shared my heart.
Mm-hmm. And so that's how kind of everything got started. And I, I've, I've spoken with, on, on stages of, like, thousands of people as a, as a child, as a teenager.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amy Hager: I also realized, though, that I'm, I was lucky to have parents who Could come up with the money to do this, um, to have a family that would dedicate the time.
Like, we didn't take family vacations, we raced go-karts. Um, the news would pick up any time that I won, you know, a big award or a big race or whatever, so I, I was interviewed all the time. I knew all the local reporters by the time I was 18. And, um, and I, I remember though that asking my parents, like, what do the kids who don't have this, like, what do they do?
And I knew there was a drug problem in our town. There wasn't anything for kids to do after school if their parents didn't put them in daycare or aftercare or a sport or something along those lines. And, you know, I knew this also because a lot of my friends were in that group. They, they were growing up a little more poor and didn't have the resources to play sports and such, and so they were starting to get in trouble.
And there was a movement in my town to start a youth group that would be a building that you could go to after school. And I think my dad heard about it and was like, "Hey," like, "we should really get involved in this," and whatever. And so he sent me along my merry little way to go help start a youth group.
And we needed to raise money to get access to the building, and so the best way to raise money is to challenge the radio DJ to a go-kart race and have them- Oh my
Toby Myles: gosh. Of course.
Amy Hager: So I'm out here at this, like, go-kart track with the radio DJ, and we've never met. His name is Harry O. And he's interviewing me before he and I race, and he's asking me all these tips and these strategies.
And I am a very sassy child, and I'm like- ... "I'm not telling you this- Yes. Giving
Toby Myles: away my
Amy Hager: secrets ... 'cause I'm gonna race you to win money for the youth group." And so we do our little race. I smoke him. It was not fair though. I mean, he's a big man on a go-kart, I'm a tiny child on a go-kart. The weight difference was not, not fair.
And then afterwards, we go on air, and we're having this conversation back and forth. And he's cleaning up and everything, and we've done the event, we've raised the money. And he's like, "I would love to have you on my show every single Monday." And I'm like, "I'm 13."
Toby Myles: Yes. I
Amy Hager: can't be on your show, friend. And I have no way to get to the o- I, and I have
Toby Myles: no-
Amy Hager: I have to go to school.
I have to go to school. I pass the radio station going to school every day. Um, but... And he's like, "It's okay. You can just call in." And so that's how it started. And so we had a Racing with Amy program until I had a driver's license, and I could drive-
Toby Myles: Gosh ...
Amy Hager: to the studio before going to school. But again, it was like that being open and curious thing, right?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: And so I started a radio career at that point and was working as a full-time DJ while going to school. And it was so much fun, and again, just really played into that sense of community. But then it also upleveled my visibility, and people were curious. What, you know, what are the races like? What is...
You know, what's so appealing about driving in a circle on a dirt track? Yeah. And so it really, it really helped the sport as well. But then it also just helped, you know, when there was a wreck, talking about the wrecks. When there was, you know, a dispute over who won, or maybe there was someone who used illegal gas or something, like, I would get to break down those nuances of the sport on air.
Mm-hmm. And, you know, it's kind of like the cool gossip thing to do. But it also was that education platform to show people that racing is more than just being a redneck. It's more than just going left and going fast. And so I, I absolutely loved it. And I think by having that experience, after I was old enough, I graduated into a larger car, a stock car, and then my dad had this harebrained idea.
He's like, "We might as well just try a lower level of NASCAR. Let's see what happens." Mm-hmm. And I was like, "Okay." He went and bought the crappiest car possible again. Um, 'cause he was like, "I don't know if you're gonna like it or not." Mm-hmm. And I was like, "All right. Sure. Let's give it a shot." And I did like it, and I think I probably would've stuck with it if I had not met my husband, decided I was gonna get married and move to the West Coast.
Yeah. I think I probably would've raced well in... I mean, there's plenty of racers my age who I raced with as a nine-year-old who are still doing it And so I'm sure I probably, if I would've stayed in the Midwest, probably would've done it. But I also am so grateful for that chapter because it taught me- Yeah
how to communicate to other adults. It taught me that it was okay to speak on a stage. It taught me that even when you have a bad day and you lose and you spin yourself out on the track, there's gonna be people cheering you on because they see the best in you. Mm-hmm.
Toby Myles: And
Amy Hager: so I really think it humanized humans to a point that, like, you know, maybe I'm a little naive sometimes around other humans, but I'm like, you know, people are really good people actually, and they can be- Yeah
really good people. Yeah. And that's 'cause that's what people have shown me.
Toby Myles: Yeah. So I think- Oh my gosh ...
Amy Hager: that also has shown me quite a bit, is if we- Mm-hmm ... can see the good in each other- Mm-hmm ... and cheer each other on when we're spinning out by ourselves-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Amy Hager: you know, that's sometimes just what you need.
'Cause I would spin out and just beat myself up, and I'd be so embarrassed. Oh my God, I was so embarrassed. And, you know, people would come down afterwards, and they'd be like, "Well, that, that was interesting. What were you thinking?" And I was like, "I thought that I had like, you know, five more feet of the track, and I didn't.
And I was going too fast," or, "I hit the brakes too hard and it just broke the car loose." And so it gave me a chance to explain my thinking and, and to kind of laugh about it and know that- Yeah ... it's not the end of the world if you're leaving a race and you
Toby Myles: spin out. Exactly. Exactly. I feel like there's so many metaphors there, right?
Like- Oh
Amy Hager: my gosh, yeah ...
Toby Myles: uh, you know, in business and in life, um- There is. Uh, but also, like, when you talk about this whole idea, like s- like people might have an idea of- Yeah ... who these people are that are into racing, uh, but they're just people. Just- Yeah.
Amy Hager: Right ...
Toby Myles: like they, they happen to have picked something that interests them, and it doesn't make them, m- you know, I'm doing air quotes for listeners, rednecks or, or anything.
Like, they're, they're actually people. And that kind of really goes back to that, like, curiosity piece. Like, be open to learning about other things and other people always in life. Like, it is never gonna be a bad thing. I want... I do have to ask... And also, I'm so glad that I was curious about the racing the go-karts because honestly, I had no idea where that story was gonna go at all.
I did not know-
Amy Hager: Yeah, I literally just kind of was like, "Oh yeah, I raced go-karts. I didn't tell you."
Toby Myles: Yes, exactly. I thought, oh, it was something she did for- 15-year-long career. Yes. Zero idea. I love all the times that you just, your dad said, "Go do this," and you're like, "Okay, I'll go do that." Yeah. And so I wonder, like, do you think that that was, like, innate in your personality to be brave like that?
Because I'm imagining me in that situation, and I'd be like, heck no am I going in to talk to a strange man. Like, I was- Yeah ... like, introverted- shy. I would say like, you know, now we would call it social anxiety. I cannot imagine myself doing... I can imagine the racing part, but- Right ... all the other things around it, I cannot.
So would you say that you are like someone who is just naturally, like, confident in that way?
Amy Hager: It, to be honest, yes. And so I think sometimes, again, I take this for granted, and, um, yeah, I've had to really learn how to relate and be, and really have empathy for people who aren't willing just to walk into some guy's office and be like, "Give me money for tires."
Yeah. Um, you know, I, I, I don't, I really think really it just, whatever, it is in me, and it's just this natural ability that I have. And, um, it, I didn't realize everybody wasn't like this though.
Toby Myles: Yeah,
Amy Hager: yeah. I thought everyone was like me and willing to take a big chance. And obviously, going through this journey of life, I have learned more and more that this is, this is a unique gift that I have.
Mm-hmm. And being able to understand other people's life stories and how they think and feel through situations is, is so fascinating to me.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: And, you know, a lot of times, sometimes I, I'll be in a, a room of, you know, entrepreneurs or a room of women, and they'll be talking about that struggle of shyness or introverted or not having that confidence.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: And it's not my place, I think, to really share and be like, "What are y'all talking about? Like, it's not that hard." I think it's important to hold the space for others who need that space to talk through it- Yeah ... and to really figure out what is right for them. And so sometimes I'll, I've been in rooms where I'm like, "Gosh, I really don't belong here.
I am the outsider."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: But I think by staying in that room, staying in that space- And hearing other people talk about their journeys, talk about their wins and their struggles, and how they got to where they're at really, really has helped me be able to connect deeper with others, to help work through their problems.
And again, look at it through that lens of curiosity and not judgment or thinking that they're doing something wrong-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Amy Hager: there's something wrong with them. And if I can give you a little bit of confidence right now, if I can give you the support that you need right now because you just feel like you spun out in front of the entire field-
then I, I love that I can give that gift sometimes. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm Right? And so I do think that, you know, it is... it's an interesting way to live. And I was like, "Wait, everybody doesn't live like this?"
Toby Myles: Yes, exactly. I think that it's just natural that in our, uh, society, that, um, extroverts seem to be rewarded, um, for- Yeah
for leadership roles and things like that. And I, I do think it's interesting when people talk about what are the ways to consider what an introvert's contribution might be to an organization, to a problem, to a team, to a project, right? Um, because they may not always be the ones, um, speaking up. I'm actually working on a keynote on that very topic.
Um- Yeah ... the idea that me, as an introvert, should, should not even be on a stage talking to 1,000 people, but I'm gonna do it anyway. I'm gonna talk about the idea that- Yeah ... like, other... I- if I can do this, trust me, anybody can do this. So I, I, I would think that that, you know, to some extent, plays into your work, um, like with doing sales, right?
Because I think, like, that is a place where that difference really shows up, right? And I'm not sure if it's like, um... if it's like being fearless or being a risk-taker or just not taking things personally. So like if you're gonna get the no, you're not... you don't take it personally. Uh, can you, um, shed a light on that?
Amy Hager: I really think that, and again, there's so many things that I learned as a race car driver. Not taking things personally is so key, is so absolutely key in sales specifically, right? You don't know everything about that person. You only know what you can uncover in a quick sales conversation.
Toby Myles: Right.
Amy Hager: And so I do think that that is a very, very important part of, of that journey.
And I think that- Again, I was talking to a bunch of new business owners, and some of them don't even own businesses yet, last night, and they are all scared to do sales. And when I was like, "Sales is one of the things that I love about being in business." Mm-hmm. Because it's just a conversation.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amy Hager: And right, I think we build up these things in our head that make them more scarier than they are.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amy Hager: And so can we think in that childlike mindset of this isn't a scary thing. Mm-hmm. This is a conversation. It's to see if we're aligned. And I think a lot of times, too, people feel like sales is you are trying to force somebody into something. Yeah. Or you are trying to pitch something to somebody. No.
Like yes, there are people who do it that way.
Toby Myles: Right, right. But
Amy Hager: I think a majority of people don't want to do it that way. Yeah. So when you can look at it as I'm having a conversation with someone to see if there's clarity and alignment of what we both value in l- in our lives, what they need, and what I can provide-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm
Amy Hager: and if we can actually work together to solve this problem that they have. Yeah. And when you can break it down in that lens and in that light, it, it really does, it takes kind of that scary factor away from sales. And, you know, there's that delicate dance of helping people to understand the urgency in their problem, and solving their problem, and, you know, meeting them where they're at so that they can make that decision.
Yeah. And I think at the end, end of any sales conversation it is what clarity have you brought to this conversation as the person holding said sales conversation- Mm-hmm ... so that the other person doesn't feel overwhelmed-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Amy Hager: and so that they can actually make a decision on their next best steps.
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah.
I think that, um, because one of the things that, um, you and your business partner, Shannon, who-
Amy Hager: Mm ...
Toby Myles: hopefully we're gonna get Shannon on- Yes ... on the show at some point. I know she just moved and is getting settled. Um, but one of the things that you talk about that I think is so important in the age of AI is you talk about your audience has more to filter, which means relevance has to register faster.
And so I just- I read that and I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is like everything" because we are so bombarded with so much noise. It's one of the things I talk about storytelling all the time because I feel like nobody, nobody has a go-kart story like yours, right? Like, nobody ha- whatever the story is, it's, it belongs to you.
And so when you talk about those things, y- you're gonna stand out. So, um, but just from your perspective, like, can you talk a little bit about that and how that plays into the work that you do with your clients?
Amy Hager: Yeah, so I would say that, you know, yes, I agree. The world is more noisy. We've got more platforms and more things coming at us, and right now because of AI, people can content create easily on AI.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: We're getting like the same things over and over- Yeah ... and over again, right? And so one, I want you all to remember, especially if you're us- using social media, social media was created to be social. Can I say four-letter words on this show?
Toby Myles: Go for it.
Amy Hager: Not to sell your shit.
Toby Myles: Thank you.
Amy Hager: And so we, we turned it into this thing to sell our shit on.
Mm-hmm. And so if you're going to be on social media with the intent of letting your audience get to know you and your business, be social.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amy Hager: Otherwise, don't do it. Let's find something else that you love- Mm-hmm ... that you can do, and you don't have to do social media.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amy Hager: But I really do think that, you know, as we're scrolling through our social, we're reading kind of the same things, and you can tell AI generated, AI generated, blah.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: And then all of a sudden you do see something that you're like, "Ooh, I'm intrigued. I'm gonna read this." Yeah, yeah. And so that- More times than not hopefully was created by an actual human.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: And so even though AI makes things quicker, content creation was never meant to be quick. Like if you- Right
think about the amount of time that goes into a movie, and that movie is only maybe two hours, but it takes a year to film.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Amy Hager: Content creation was never made to be quick.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amy Hager: And so again, as humans, we're just trying, sometimes we try to monopolize too much, right? Yeah. And so my challenge for listeners and for anybody who's a content creator is to pause and create from the heart.
Mm-hmm. Tell your stories. Share what's going on. Again, you don't have to be a complete open book, but be open. And, and have conversations with people. Ask curious questions on other people's stuff. Yeah. And enjoy that piece of social media which is that connecting, that conversation. And, you know, I think that maybe through that lens we can really right turn the ship of social media and, and let it be what it was meant to be, and a place to really ask each other questions, be social- Mm-hmm
and to really learn more about each other. Like, what a beautiful, easy platform to share our stories, and for us to receive those stories through that lens of learning something more and asking- Yeah ... curious questions.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I, this snippet, all those things that you just said, this is like, I'm gonna be sharing this all over social media because I...
And this is not gonna make me any friends, I am sure of it, but I get on, uh, LinkedIn and- I'm sorry to my listeners, I am so bored. I am bored to tears. I don't wanna hear another person calling out someone and saying it's AI slop or em dashes and all the things. Like, I don't care. No one cares. Like- Right
tell me a story. Tell me something that happened.
Amy Hager: Tell me something real.
Toby Myles: Tell me something real. Think, pretend we're back in the old days where we used to go into an office and- ... we met in the, the break room.
Amy Hager: Exactly.
Toby Myles: You know? And we were standing there with our coffee, our morning coffee, and we talked about something that happened, you know, over the weekend.
Like, that is what, those are the conversations that I want to have, that I try to have, that I feel like, okay, if more of us do it, then maybe more people would say, "Oh, that's interesting." There's somebody that I follow, um, that, um, he, he does polls, and I know polls are, like, they're in or out, whatever, it doesn't matter, but they're usually interesting.
They're things about, like, coffee and who has the best burgers, and I'm like, "Yes, I am here for this."
Amy Hager: Yes. Oh my gosh. I have a friend who, he, um, is the executive director of the Vail Valley Chamber in, you know, Vail, Colorado. "Sundays are for picking fights on the internet," is his theme. He will pick a topic like best football mascot.
Toby Myles: Uh-huh.
Amy Hager: And I, this man has hundreds of comments underneath it. Yeah,
Toby Myles: yeah.
Amy Hager: And, of why people think this mascot is the best, or best, you know, type of hot dog during the fourth of July, I think might have been. Yeah. And I'm just like, "I love that that's what you're doing," and I love to engage with it. Mm-hmm.
Like, I'll be like, "Ooh, it's Sunday, I wonder what topic he's gonna pick- Yeah ... and what other people are gonna say."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Amy Hager: And then I'm conversing with people in the comments too. Mm-hmm. "Oh, I never would have thought of that- Mm-hmm ... or I forgot about that situation." It is so much fun. It's such a highlight of my- Yeah
social media week, and- Yeah ... I make sure I go to that. Yes. And again, he's not trying to sell us anything. I think he's a wicked smart guy who's- Mm-hmm ... doing really big things, and I love reading his articles anyways. But this is the thing that I love about him the most, is-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Amy Hager: he's stirring up the internet with, with fights on a Sunday over- There
Toby Myles: you go
Amy Hager: best football mascot.
Toby Myles: Yeah, and it's, and it's like we talked about. It, it makes him human. It, it gives us- So much fun ... like, a little slice of who he is as a person, and people want to work with other people, right? Like- Exactly ... we... And that whole, you know, know, like, and trust that, you know, we all understand, uh, as marketers of our businesses, like- If you have 100 people to choose from, why would you not want to work with someone you like?
Yeah. That's kind of how I feel like. You know? Me too. I want to work with someone that I feel like if we were- Right ... in the same town, we'd be like, "Let's... We're gonna talk about this, but let's meet for coffee or burgers or drinks-" Exactly ... or whatever.
Amy Hager: Right?
Toby Myles: Yes. Yeah.
Amy Hager: 1,000%. I, I completely agree with you, and I think that as business owners, if we can realize it is okay for people to like us, and it's- Mm-hmm
as equally okay for someone to not like us. Yeah. I know I am not everyone's cup of tea.
Toby Myles: Right.
Amy Hager: That is a-okay. Yeah. Found this out way before the internet as a go-kart- Yeah ... child, and some people- Yeah. ... are like, "You're a spoiled brat." But I'm like, "I'm nine. Why are you calling me mean names?" But, um, but you know, also, I'm a woman in a man's sport.
There was a lot- Yeah ... of rumors- Yeah ... that went about me in my younger days, and you just can't let that shit bug you. No. Like, fine, people have their own opinions. Let them run. Exactly. We don't know what their day's like and why they need to make that shit up about us. And when you can really, again, hold your own, know that you're doing the best that you can do in this life, and lead it super curiously-
Toby Myles: Yeah
Amy Hager: I think those opportunities make you so much more appealing to customers- Mm-hmm ... than having this fake perfect persona.
Toby Myles: Oh my gosh. So that's like the mic drop moment right there. I usually- ... get to this point in the conversation where I, I want to know what your best piece of advice is, and I think you literally just gave it, so I don't even need to ask that question.
But-
Amy Hager: I love how we jive so well together. We do. We don't even have to ask questions.
Toby Myles: No, I know.
Amy Hager: We just ping pong
Toby Myles: back and forth. It's so... It's... Exactly. This is- I love it ... this is amazing. So before we, uh, wrap this up-
Amy Hager: Mm-hmm ...
Toby Myles: can you tell people where they can engage with you, find you, follow you, be social with you online?
Amy Hager: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um, my favorite place to hang out is Facebook. It's Amy Hager, so A-M-Y, Hager is H-A-G-E-R. Um, you can also... I, I work under the Joyful Business Revolution and like, uh, we said, my partner in joy is gonna eventually be on the podcast, and you'll hear more about that business and how we're creating businesses from that place of joy.
But you can always visit joyfulbusinessrevolution.com. We also have a podcast ourself, uh, Grow Your Business for Good, G-O-O-D. And yeah, so hit me up on Facebook. I'd love to have a conversation. I might ask you what your favorite, uh, football mascot is or something crazy. I'm gonna steal it from the other guy.
Toby Myles: There you go. There you go. I love it. Amy, this is amazing. I knew it would be i- a good conversation, but it was so much fun. I learned so many things, um, including all about, uh, go-kart racing. So- Yeah ... it's fabulous.
Amy Hager: Oh, my gosh. Definitely. Thank you so much for having me and for creating this space for, for your guests to share their stories even though we may forget we have them.
Toby Myles: We do forget we have them. Thank you again.