Kristin Belden shares her journey from art school and early days in San Francisco to navigating the sudden collapse of a high‑growth startup. In this episode, we talk about how unexpected loss and uncertainty pushed her to start her own business, why curiosity matters more than having it all figured out, and how she now helps women bridge the gap between the work they want and the life they want to live.
Check Out These Highlights:
Kristin reflects on her early years as an art major, moving to San Francisco, and the defining moment when she stepped into the corporate world at McKinsey & Company. That decision shifted her trajectory from art and galleries into business and leadership.
She opens up about the summer of 2023, when she and 1,000 colleagues were furloughed overnight after their company imploded in scandal. The sudden loss of her role as COO left her in a dark season, but ultimately became the catalyst for launching her own business.
Kristin shares how she gave herself permission to grieve, embraced curiosity, and began building work that aligned with her values. Today, she creates spaces and conditions for women and organizations to get honest about what needs to shift, and helps them build bridges into what’s next.
Her story is a reminder that pivots often arrive uninvited, but they can lead us closer to the work and life we’re truly meant to build.
About Kristin Belden:
Kristin Belden is a strategist, coach, and podcast host who helps women and organizations align their work with the lives they want to create. Drawing on her own journey through corporate leadership, entrepreneurship, and unexpected pivots, she empowers others to navigate change with clarity and resilience.
Connect with Kristin:
🌐 Website: https://www.beldenstrategies.com/
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Hey there. I'm so excited for you to hear today's episode with Kristin Belden So often when I sit down with my guests, I have a pretty good sense of what we're gonna talk about just based on our previous conversations. But in this episode, Kristin surprised me when she shared about getting furloughed suddenly and the dark time that followed and how that moment led her to the work she does today. And also, like me, Kristin went to art school, which I didn't know, and she has a podcast, so this conversation felt very much like hanging out with an old friend, and I think you're gonna love it. Are you ready? Let's dive in
Toby Myles: Hey, Kristin. Welcome to the podcast.
Kristin Belden: Thank you. Hi, Toby. So good to see you.
Toby Myles: I'm excited to do this. We were having a really good conversation before I pressed record, and this happens pretty often where I'm like, "Ah, I should have just recorded that intro." Every time. We could use it for, like, bloopers or something.
Kristin Belden: Every time. I say that every single time. I'm like, "Why didn't..." Sometimes I'll be chatting with somebody for 15 minutes before we hit record, I'm like-
Toby Myles: Yeah ... "
Kristin Belden: That was the whole thing."
Toby Myles: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So you have a podcast, so you're a pro, um, at this, so I'm excited to do this with you. Um, and we were talking a little bit before I pressed record about what it's like to be on the other side of, what I say, like, when you flip the mic.
Uh, I had it happen to me where my, um, business bestie, Christy Mitchell, interviewed me about my origin story, and I was so nervous. Mm-hmm. I was like, "Why am I nervous? This is my podcast," right? But it's, it's different being on the, the interviewee side of things, but-
Kristin Belden: Yes. I'm trying not to think too much about it.
Toby Myles: Okay, don't. I'm sorry. I probably should stop talking. I should stop talking about... So I usually like to share how we know each other, and it's funny because you and I had a, a senior moment- ... where we were like, "Who did introduce us?" And then you remembered it was Jen Baxter. So shout-out Jen Baxter if you're listening.
Uh, she's one of my favorite humans on the planet. Uh- She's amazing ... tal- talented writer, copywriter, and just a wonderful person. So I'm excited because, uh, like I was saying to you, amazing women always know other aw- amazing women, and that's how we, like, grow our community and build our networks. And so I'm so grateful to every woman who has come on the show and then introduced me to someone like you.
So I'm going to stop talking, except I'm gonna ask you this one all-important question for you to, um, if you can, take us back to a moment in time, or maybe it's more than one moment in time, that you feel really set you on the path that you're on right now.
Kristin Belden: Hmm. I love, you know, you had asked that question, um, when we were talking when we first connected, and it's, it's so tricky to narrow it down to one, like you're saying.
But I think, um... Well, first I wanna say I think our Senior moment, what's beautiful about it is it's because of exactly what you're saying. There's so many incredible women that are connecting now that it's like, I don't even remember who connected us. Yeah. Could've been any number of amazing women, which is- Mm-hmm
awesome. Um, I think I will... Can I give two answers? Is that-
Toby Myles: You, it's your- Okay ... it's your show, so you say what you want. Okay.
Kristin Belden: It is, to your point, it's weird to reflect on your own life when you're so used to asking the questions. Um- Mm-hmm ... but when I think about that, I think of when I was living in San Francisco in my 20s.
So I had gone to school. I was an art major. Um, I had always known that I wanted to move to San Francisco. That was kind of one of those, like, just inevitables for me. And so myself and some friends moved there and were just having the best time. I mean, I had no real clear vision for what I wanted to be doing, but I ended up working in restaurants and in art galleries and having just a great time kind of coming of age and, you know, learning to be an adult and living on my own.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: Um, probably a little too much fun, frankly. But-
Toby Myles: Is there such a thing in your 20s? I don't think so. Yeah, I don't know. I
Kristin Belden: don't know. Um, I wound up applying to go to a program in Spain where I ended up doing, like, a immersive language program and then working at an art gallery there for, so it was about eight months, and came home.
And you, you would think that maybe that's the, the moment, but actually it was when- Mm-hmm ... I came back to San Francisco and realized I still just really didn't know kind of what my path was going to be. I was really seeking some kind of identity or awareness of myself, and I wound up deciding it was time to get a big-kid job.
And went to a recruiter, who I still talk to today. Shout-out to David Goldman. He's a friend of mine still after all these years. And he got me an interview at McKinsey & Company, which is the consulting firm in downtown San Francisco. And I went up to this big, crazy, beautiful building, and I think it was on, like, the 47th floor.
Toby Myles: Wow.
Kristin Belden: And, um, you know, just imagine. It, it was one of those things where y- you know, you walk into this moment and go, "Okay, I can feel something is changing, and I don't know what yet."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: Um, interview went great. It was for a receptionist position, and I walked downstairs and I will never forget, I called my mom- crying because I said, "Okay, I think this went well, and I think I'm gonna do it, but this means I'm kind of going in a totally different direction."
Like, I'm-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Kristin Belden: it felt a little bit like I was leaving the artistic side of me behind and moving into this more, you know, business, corporate world. And that was true. I, I did it. I took the job, and, um, so grateful for it and would never take it back. But that kind of launched me into a different stratosphere that- Mm-hmm
um, you know, maybe wouldn't have happened had I chosen a different path.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: Uh, and lots of squiggles and wiggles, you know, that happened after that, but that definitely feels like a really defining moment for me.
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah.
Kristin Belden: Um, and then the second one would be three years ago, um, literally almost to the day, so summer of 2023.
I had been working at a, um, social impact technology company. It was a venture-backed, um, you know, on our series to raise all of the craziness that comes with working for that kind of, uh, high-growth startup. I- Mm-hmm ... worked there for about three years, and at the time, I was the COO. And Memorial Day weekend of that summer, we all got called into an emergency meeting where we were, all 1,000 of us were furloughed overnight.
Our last paychecks bounced, and our two- Oh ... co-founders were indicted on millions of- ... dollars in investor fraud.
Toby Myles: Oh my God. But I did- I did-
Kristin Belden: Yeah. ...
Toby Myles: did not think that that's where you were gonna go with that. I know. Wow.
Kristin Belden: I, yeah, I can laugh about it now, but I will say, I, and this is, honestly, it's not really my story, the, the, the-
Toby Myles: Yeah
Kristin Belden: you know, na- that were actually leading the business and, and are navigating the aftermath of that implosion. That's a whole other story. But for me personally, the last half of 2023 was really dark and really, really hard, and- Yeah ... um, you know, forced me to ask myself questions that I had really never asked myself.
And as trite as it sounds, it literally, um, I look at it as a giant gift now-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Kristin Belden: for, for where I am today because there's certainly no way that I would have just jumped ship and started my own business had I not- Mm-hmm ... been pushed off the cliff. So, uh- Yeah. Those are my two big-
Toby Myles: Amazing. So I'm curious, when that, uh, furlough happened- What was your thought process?
I mean, did you, did you just say, "Okay, I'm gonna give myself some time"? Did you have that luxury to give yourself some time to figure it out? Did you... Were you looking for jobs and you couldn't find something, or did you just look at it like, "Oh, I've always wanted to do this other thing, and now I can do it"?
Kristin Belden: Um, probably a little bit of all of that. I think that I, you know, if I'm really honest with myself, I had a great... I, I, I thought I was gonna die at that job. Like, it was mission-driven. I was obsessed with the people. I loved what I was doing. You know- Mm-hmm ... you would've had to drag me kicking and screaming out of that role.
Um-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Kristin Belden: and I, but I would still say there was probably in the very back of my mind, like the tiniest whisper of like, "Okay, well, you got to the top of the mountain, right?" It's all the things. It's the title and the salary and the, all the things we tell ourselves are the trappings of success.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: But I didn't feel dramatically different than any other, you know, kind of stage of my life, and so I think there was kind of always that little, like, "Well, well, is this, is this it?
Is this the thing?" You know, what-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Kristin Belden: what was under the surface there I had not really tapped into.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: I, at the time, you know, we had become... I would not say, what's the word I wanna look for? Um- I- I was making the kind of salary I could have never dreamed of for myself at that time. Mm-hmm. And so when that was stripped away overnight, um, I wouldn't say I had the luxury of time to figure out what was next.
Right. However, I do recognize, right, we had set ourselves up in such a way that I didn't have to find a job tomorrow, right?
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah. So
Kristin Belden: little bit of both. We, I remember sitting out on the porch with my husband, we were poring over every finance, every expenditure we had going out, like, what can we get rid of?
What do we need to do? You know, do we sell the house? There was a lot of big questions happening.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: Um, but I will say, you know, I had a few interviews during that timeframe, and this is the first time I ever recognized I had a full body no. Mm-hmm. I ha- everything in my... Which sounds bizarre given the financial predicament
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: we found ourselves in. But I was like, "I can't..." I remember talking to a woman who was amazing, and I just remember telling her, like, "I won't be able to give you what you need for this role right now. Like, I-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Kristin Belden: can't take the next big thing. I'm not ready for that." Um, I also don't think that I could have said this at the time, but I now can see f- it for what it was, which there was that kind of six-month timeframe of letting myself grieve.
Yeah. I know that sounds like a big word. It's a job. But ultimately, there was so much else that was lost with that, um-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Kristin Belden: transition. And I happened... Actually, Jen Baxter loves this book as well. I happened upon a book called Wintering by Kirsten Bray. Oh. Do you know this book too? Of course you do.
Toby Myles: I have not read it, but- Okay.
I, it has come up in so many conversations, and every time I hear it I'm like, "Why have I not read this book yet?"
Kristin Belden: Oh. You know what? Because it will find you at the right moment. I lit- like, really believe that. It is-
Toby Myles: Okay ...
Kristin Belden: the kind of book that I desperately needed that lifeline at the moment. Mm-hmm. And someone had gifted it to me years ago, still don't know who.
I have no idea, like, why I randomly found it at that moment.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: But I think my soul, like, needed to hear or, or read the words of somebody who had come before and said, "Look, it's okay to, like, let yourself feel all of the feelings. You don't- Yeah ... have to, like, rush into what's next."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: Um, so all that to say, I ended up launching my LLC with literally zero plans or ideas or vision.
It was just I needed to do something positive for myself, and I needed- Mm Put one foot in front of the other and just see how it felt
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: I had had a business with, uh, two business partners years prior, um, but I had never done something totally on my own.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: So it was really just a like, I gotta get moving.
I gotta like, do something. So-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Kristin Belden: that happened.
Toby Myles: Oh, my gosh. I would imagine too that you... That's not something, l- losing a job in that way so suddenly is not really something that you can predict or plan for how you're going to feel, right? Like- Totally ... if you had time, you know, if they said, "Hey, we're shutting the doors-" in a month or three months or whatever, at least you would have that, "Okay, well this is disappointing, but now I can kinda go through this and get used to the idea of it."
But so suddenly I would imagine that you could never have predicted all of the range of emotions you went through- Yeah ... after the fact.
Kristin Belden: No, certainly not. I mean, you know, all of our body of work, it was gone. I mean, everything got shut down. Everything I had worked on for three and a half years I no longer had access to.
And I'm, I'm the type of person that needs my papers and I need my things, like
Toby Myles: Yeah
Kristin Belden: I tend to be very much in the moment, so once it's done I forget about it. So I really- Mm-hmm ... like struggled for a while to think, like, "What did I even do for three years?" You know? Mm-hmm. I, um, I held onto... I have all of these notebooks that I write everything in, and I probably had 10 or 15 of those that I could not get myself to get rid of for I think probably, like, two years after the fact.
Mm-hmm. Because it felt like this anchor, that like, "What if I need to remember this later?" "What if, you know, something comes up and-"
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: Of course I'm never gonna go through those things ever again. Right. I'm never gonna find it in there, even if I'm looking for it. Mm-hmm. So I, there was a very cathartic moment, you know, a couple years in where I took that whole box of notebooks out to the bin and said, "You know what?
It's time to release all of this. I'm ready to, like, finally move into whatever the next season is." So-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Kristin Belden: yeah. Couldn't have predicted any of that. Uh, you know, or the fear that comes with when you're on the executive team of a company that's going through a massive investigation. I mean, you know, I had to get legal counsel.
Uh, so many others had to deal with much more, you know, drama than I did. But still-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Kristin Belden: when you're in that moment of, "I don't know how far they're gonna cast the net into inquiry," and all of that- Yeah ... so you're sitting, you know, on your phone waiting to see if FBI is knock, knocking on your door. I mean, it was a lot of-
Toby Myles: Right
Kristin Belden: tumult for, um, for a period of time that I was not, you know, prepared for. But to your point, nothing can prepare you for that, so you-
Toby Myles: Mm-mm ...
Kristin Belden: navigate it as you can.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, I can't even imagine. I mean, y- the, the whole idea of, like, keeping the notebooks is so relatable. When I left the last job that I worked for in corporate marketing, had been there for almost 15 years, and I would always keep notes on these white legal pads that we had in the office.
And, you know, I would fill up a page, and I'd write in every tiny little space on the page, and then the next day it would be a new page, and so on. And even after I left, I still had those in my bottom drawer. Um- Yeah ... I worked, I worked from home, so it was my s- I didn't change offices when I started my business.
But like you, I was like I, do I keep these? Do I throw... I'm like, even if I, even if there was something in there that I needed, there was no way I was ever going to find it.
Kristin Belden: Gonna find it. Yeah. It's not like it's systematized. I don't have any, like, I-
Toby Myles: No, not at all ... put it anywhere. Not searchable or anything like that.
Yeah. Exactly. So, um, okay. So in those early days, so you s- you, you, um, opened your LLC, but still not really knowing what you were gonna do. W- were there multiple different things you were thinking of in terms of, like, starting a business? Did you have some ideas? Was it similar to s- to work you had done in the past?
Like, take me through those early days of that kind of discovery.
Kristin Belden: Yeah. Yeah, no, I really honestly mean it when I say I had no clue. I, I, I really didn't set out to, like, start a business. I think it was just I need to get moving, and I very gratefully, you know, my former business partner from, you know, those years prior that I had shared about, he was like, "Keep your head in the game a little bit.
Here's a couple of projects. Like, you know, you don't need to, like, go crazy with it, but here's a little bit of work just to kind of keep your head in the game a bit." Yeah. And so still forever grateful for that because- Mm-hmm ... I think it kind of kept me anchored in reality a little bit.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: Um, but not, like, really high stakes work, right?
You know, just enough to kind of- Keep the wheels going a little bit.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: Um, so I would say, you know, the whole first calendar year, so like 2024 of my business, I did well on paper, quote unquote, because I, you know, was taking on projects and I was really getting a groove and I was ... A lot of it was related to the COO work I had done previously.
Mm-hmm. So growth strategy for businesses, m- organizational strategy, just making sure that folks had what they need to run-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Kristin Belden: efficiently. Um, but I will tell you for as grateful as I was for the work and for some of the awesome clients I worked with, it was not soul work, so to speak. Yeah. It was not exactly the kind of work that I saw myself doing forever, and so had to have yet another kind of reckoning for myself at the end of that year and go, "Okay, is this the work I want to be doing?
If not, what does that look like?"
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: And do I get a job, right? I was still kind of in that moment of like, "I'm not totally sure this is the thing."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: And so that first year was really just trying on a lot of stuff, and-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Kristin Belden: I say that to clients now too, like everyone will ... I think there's a lot of language out there right now for solopreneurs or first time business owners that's like, "Find your niche, find your niche.
Like, define it, define it," and-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ... I'm
Kristin Belden: not against that, but I do also think it can kind of scare people off of starting when the reality is you might not-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Kristin Belden: find it right away. Mm-hmm. And that's okay. Like-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Kristin Belden: you'll find it if you're open to it and you're listening and you're curious enough and actually paying attention, then it'll come.
Yeah. It might take a little bit longer
Toby Myles: than you'd
Kristin Belden: like it to, but it'll happen, you know?
Toby Myles: Yes, for sure. I think that is such a good point because I think we start our businesses thinking that this is the thing that we're gonna do. I did. I started as a copywriter, and I wrote copy and content, and for the first year I was perfectly happy with that.
And then I was like, you know, I really love email and strategy, and so I got certified as an email strategist and I did that. I still do that for my retainer clients. Um, but- It, not that long ago I said, "You know, so many people are using AI and everything town sounds so much the same-" Mm-hmm ... "that I really want to teach people how to excavate their stories and use their stories to, to build their authority online."
Yeah. And so I made yet another sort of pivot, not like a total shift away from what I was doing, but you know, that w- I never would have thought that would be what I was doing in my seven- Yeah ... seventh year of business at all, right? So I think to your point, like, just staying curious and kind of watching for signs, and also like trying things on and seeing like what feels good and what you're really good at.
Because honestly, like, if you're gonna do it, like entrepreneurship is not easy. And if you're gonna do it, it should be something where you remember every day like why you're doing it and why you love it, and how you can help people.
Kristin Belden: Totally. Totally. And you know, the reality is we all need to survive and have a life.
And so in the beginning it's like, yeah, you're probably taking on stuff that maybe is not totally aligned with what you wanna be doing. And, and that's also okay. If your true north is that you want to really give it a go and be on your own and build something, then those first, you know, year or two, three, whatever, might not look exactly like you thought it might, but-
Toby Myles: Yeah
Kristin Belden: it's gonna get you to where you wanna go, and that's okay. You know? It's okay.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Exactly. So, um, I think it's interesting because I almost feel like the work that you do now, and I want you to talk about that, but the work that you do now, like you could've used you at the time.
Kristin Belden: Yeah. I still could. I still could.
Toby Myles: Okay, fair. That's fair. That's fair. So can you talk a little bit about that, how you help your clients?
Kristin Belden: Sure. Um, I laugh about that with my husband all the time. I'm like, "Oh, I could really use a me right now." It's always like, you can't do it for yourself, right? You know? Right. It's one of those things you can do for others.
Um, so you know, mid 2025, I would say, is when I started to get really honest with myself about, you know, who do I wanna help, how do I think I can be of best service, and it wasn't until I allowed myself to really get quiet again, and there's a theme coming up back, uh, back up again, um, where I had gone through a coaching program that was amazing and literally, like anybody that's considering doing a program like that, I'm always a huge proponent.
Uh, do your homework to make sure it's the right fit, but-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Kristin Belden: it really helped me, again, ask some of those harder questions. And but there was also a lot of information, and so at some point I felt like really inundated with... I was listening to every podcast, I was reading every book. Oh, yeah. I was taking the program, right?
And at some point it was like, like way too noisy. Too
Toby Myles: much.
Kristin Belden: Yes.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: So it was when that program ended and I had had the right amount of information and I kinda stopped, you know, listening to some podcasts for a while, and finally, you know, got quiet enough to go, okay, I really just wanna see more awesome women winning in the world, and the type of person I wanna work with, every time I close my eyes and picture that person, it was a badass woman I've either worked with or for or would want to work with or for.
Mm-hmm. And the reality is I've lived through my own evolution in a way that I just... It's, it's a very specific lived experience that I now know I can work with other women through. Mm-hmm. And I think ultimately when I thought about what that work could look like, it was how do you bridge the work you wanna do with the life that you wanna have?
And you know, for so long I was building the career I thought I wanted, but not necessarily in service of the life and the lifestyle that I wanted.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm
Kristin Belden: I wor- I was so lucky that that company, you know, we were very much you are your whole human, you get to come as yourself, right? Like, we, everyone knew everyone had lives outside of work.
But the reality is if you're on the executive team of a fast-growing venture-backed startup, like, y- that's a lot of words, but in the reality how that feels is, okay, maybe I'm volunteering at my kid's school for part of the day, but my whole head is somewhere else, right? Mm-hmm. I'm thinking about what I'm coming back to or what's next or what am I doing here.
Yeah. And, uh, there's literally nothing wrong with that, but I knew that it was no longer for me. Yeah. And so had to really think hard about what that would then look like in practice going forward. And so now that's the work I do. I like to say I create, um, the spaces and conditions for women in organizations to get really honest about what needs to shift, and then help them build the bridge into what's next.
So-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ... for an
Kristin Belden: individual that might look like you've been in corporate for 30 years, and it's time to, to figure out what's next. But to see to the other side of that bridge feels really far away, so let's try and-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Kristin Belden: shorten that a little bit and create a plan. For an organization, that might look like you've grown from 5 to 50 million in five years, and you're looking at the next five going, "Oh my gosh," like, "How do I do this in a way that's actually sustainable and not gonna burn myself and my entire staff out?"
So- Mm-hmm ... a lot of that too is around the community that you were just talking about. I think more and more I'm seeing it's not just about the individual work that I do with people, it's how then those folks are also coming together, um, in addition to that. So-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Kristin Belden: that's why I say spaces and conditions is not just, you know, the one-on-one, it's the, the community side of it too.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I do think that you're in that unique position of like the things that you went through, and the space and the grace that you gave yourself to figure it out, you know, I would imagine there's a certain part of it that's unsettling, 'cause don't we all just wanna like know what is the answer?
We want things to be, you know, let's put a bow on it, we're good. But that's not really how things go, and the fact that you have gone through that and now can help other people- figure it out for themselves too-
Kristin Belden: Yeah ...
Toby Myles: knowing that it's not gonna be like your story, but, but supporting them through that kinda journey of like you don't have to have it all figured out, you know?
Y- it could be as simple as, like, just that one step. I do, at the... And I do wanna circle back to the, the piece, like, of all the noise, right? Because we have all been there. We're online because that's where we're supposed to be, and there's 20 people who can teach you about, you know, AI or s- another 20 people are gonna teach you about marketing, and you try to listen to them all, and they all have something different to say.
And then you just get frozen. You don't even know what to do anymore because the, it's just too much, right? And so I do see people just starting out get, like, paralyzed because they don't know... The, the, it just feels like so much, right? And so it's kind of like that, um, you know, you don't have to, if you're climbing a staircase, you don't have to know how you're gonna get all the way to the top of the staircase.
You just gotta get up on that first step, right? And then the next step, and the next step, and you can break it down like that. And so I'm wondering, um, how, how often do people come to you with that s- that sort of fear of like I, I don't, I want this thing, I just don't even know how to get there?
Kristin Belden: Yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing, right?
I think it's, number one, es- for women in particular, it starts with giving ourselves permission to say the thing out loud that we actually want. Mm-hmm. And so many times that has been either buried or the layers have been built, and it can feel scary to, to say it out loud that, hey, maybe I want something a little bit different.
In fact, a woman I was just interviewing, we were chatting earlier about this idea too of being grateful and how, you know, we can be conditioned to say, "I'm grateful, I'm grateful. I don't, I don't need any more. I'm good." And-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Kristin Belden: it's, it's yes and though. It can be- Mm-hmm ... yeah, I'm grateful and I'm so proud of everything I've done, but I still think there might be something different.
And that doesn't- Mm-hmm ... mean more as in more stuff or more wealth. That, that can be part of it, but that doesn't- Yeah ... have to be the whole thing.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: More might look like exactly what we were saying before. More is I want more time to have autonomy to go on a Wednesday and do art doesn't have my kids' school.
Like, for me, that's more- Yeah ... now, right? And so I think just getting honest with ourselves about that is really important. Um, and I think as for, like, the information overload piece of it, some of that too, especially the women I work with that are kind of moving from a W2 to thinking about building on their own, or they've been trying the solopreneur thing for a while and haven't quite landed on what the thing is that they wanna be building toward.
Yeah, I like to always say, like, if you wanted to be told what to do, then, like, go back and get -
Toby Myles: Yes ... a
Kristin Belden: W2 job. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like, that is ... Then you can have somebody create the framework and the structure. That's what that's for. Mm-hmm. But you're doing this 'cause you wanna do something different and do it your way.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: But that's hard because ... And, and believe me, like, I was the person that was reaching for every little bit of scaffolding I could find in those first few years, and that's why I'm really careful about my approach now. I don't wanna be another person that's telling you, "Here are the five steps to become a multimillionaire."
Like, it's just- Mm-hmm ... not my style. And- Yeah There might be kernels of truth in each of those folks out there with those approaches- Mm-hmm ... but, and those frameworks. But I think ultimately h- it's just never exactly gonna be your story, right? Yeah. There's, there's pieces of it that you can pull from each of those, you know, but it's never...
I am never gonna tell you that I have the perfect framework to get you to where you wanna go- Yeah ... 'cause I just don't know what it is yet, you know?
Toby Myles: Yeah,
Kristin Belden: yeah. We'll figure it out together.
Toby Myles: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And you've raised a really good point, like, it is, it is even for people who want to do their own thing or coming out of a, a, like you said, W-2, a corporate job, nine to five, whatever, even if they want to do that, it can be, like, really unsettling to not have those guardrails.
Like, okay, this is... I show up, I clock in, these are the things I do, and then I go home, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, for me, I was so ready to be out of there, and I had had other businesses, so I knew what to expect. Right. And I knew that I was someone that would be self-motivated, right? I wouldn't be sitting on the couch all day and then think, "Oh, I guess I should do some work."
I knew that about myself, but I do think some people do struggle with that. You know, if somebody is not making sure that you, you know, punch a time card- They are not as good as, you know, holding themselves accountable. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with, you know, working for someone else at all, you know?
Um, but that, but I think also it's okay to just feel a little unsettled without those, without that structure. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't do the thing.
Kristin Belden: Totally. Yes. Yeah. You just gotta find it for yourself, and it can feel- Yeah ... a little wonky, right? It's growing pain- Yeah ... with anything, right? And I, I always...
Actually, somebody really helped challenge me a little bit. It was a recent woman I was chatting with. She didn't do this intentionally, but we were talking about what it looks like to work with me after you do your kinda first, you know, I call it, like, a clarity consult, just to, like, really dig in on what is the thing that we're working on together.
And she's like, "Okay, yeah, and then it's like, right, there's gonna be accountability, and, you know, blah blah blah." And I'm like, "Sure." And I really sat with that for a while, 'cause it, that word has just never... It's just always rubbed me the wrong way, especially as it relates- Mm-hmm ... to working with an advisor or a coach or whatever.
And I landed on continuity, because I think that's really what it is more than it is you have to hold yourself accountable, to your point.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: I'm here to help you with that through line of continuity to make sure that you're not losing the thread along the way, because-
Toby Myles: Hmm. Oh, that's good ...
Kristin Belden: you know, like, when we're on our own, we're in our head, and it's like we can kinda just- Yes
rumble around, and it's like, "No, let me remind you what we talked about last time." Like this- Yes ... and that. Okay, cool. Like, are we still there? And if not, that's fine. Mm-hmm. But let's not forget it. Mm-hmm. Otherwise we'll just keep, like the spinning of the wheels can just keep happening.
Toby Myles: Mm. That's so, that's such a good point.
I, I don't know. I mean, I can speak for myself and some other entrepreneurs that I know in my network, but we have all the ideas. Like, we are ideas people. Yeah. Things pop up all the time. It's like, "Oh, I think that would be great. I think I should do that." And I worked with a coach, uh, a little over a year ago.
She was actually helping me set up some systems in my business that I probably should've had in place- Yeah ... before, but it wasn't- As we all should, yes. ... until, wasn't until I realized things were broken. So she helped me. But, um, one of the things that she helped me with was to set up this project board where I could rate things based on are they serving my goals, my number one goals right now.
Um, and if not, it doesn't mean that it's, like, a never thing. It could be a s- a someday thing, right? And so I could tag things within my system so that I didn't lose the idea.
Kristin Belden: Mm, that's great.
Toby Myles: But that, that way I stayed focused on, okay, I said this was the thing I was gonna do, and this serves my greater business goal, so I'm gonna stick to this.
until at which point it's either done or I decide, no, this no longer serves my bigger goal. But me being an ideas person, you know, I would just feel like, oh, I really wanna do this, you know? But having that system is like, okay, no, now's not the time.
Kristin Belden: Yes. I know. We... 'Cause it can feel so black and white at times.
Mm-hmm. It's like, oh, gosh, well, if I don't... Yeah, and if you're an ideas person too, then it's like you're onto the next one. You're just forgetting.
Toby Myles: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So I absolutely love that. So speaking of being an ideas person- Yeah ... um, I, I, I wanna talk about your podcast because I, I don't know about you, but I thought...
I talked about having a podcast for, like, three years before I ever did it. Yeah. And I had all kinds of excuses why I shouldn't do it, you know? There's too many podcasts. Who's gonna listen? Um, and then the tech. I was like, I don't wanna do the tech. Mm. I'm not a tech person. And so I literally just kept finding reasons not to do it.
And the same coach that I worked with, uh, one day in early 2025, she's like, "Well, just... You know, it doesn't have to be a big deal. Just start inviting women to get on a Zoom call and have these conversations." 'Cause for me, I have this curiosity about, like, how did you get here? Like, I t- it's insatiable. Um- Yeah
I like to joke that I'm just nosy about people. Yeah. But more polite way to say I'm curious. Um, and so once I removed that barrier of thinking it had to be some big thing, and then I found someone who could do my editing, it was like, oh, well, this is kinda fun, right? Yeah. So you also have a podcast, and it's called Kind of a Big Deal.
Kristin Belden: Yeah.
Toby Myles: Um, and I would love for you to share, like, how, how did that come about?
Kristin Belden: Mm. Um, as with everything, apparently, in this season of my life, just totally randomly and without much thought.
Yeah, I, I literally ... So when that time happened when I was sharing that I finally got quiet and realized who I want to be serving and how I think I can be of best service, I kind of, I wrote down a list of, like, those 15 women that I was just talking about. Mm-hmm. And went on a listening tour of sorts where I was just, number one, trying to test my kind of assumptions, and also make sure I'm not trying to solve a problem no one's trying to solve, right?
I didn't wanna, you know, try and put something out in the world or try to find ways to work with folks that just wasn't resonant for people. And so- Yeah ... it was on, I think, maybe like the ninth conversation where I was like, "Wait a second. There's so much incredible wisdom here, and there's so many amazing stories," to your point, that we don't get to hear.
And it was really just ... I was trying out the, like, being a little bit more active on LinkedIn, and I, I was really honestly philosophically against it for a long time. Mm-hmm. I come from a media and journalism background, and so I was like, "I don't wanna be another person putting more crap out into the world."
Like, I just ... Mm-hmm. And part of my coaching program, they were like, "No, no, no. Like, you have to find a way. If you're building something on your own," you know, all the things we all hear. You have to be- Yeah ... a brand, and I was like, "Ugh." I just could never find anything that I felt compelled to be excited to share about.
Mm-hmm. And this was really the first thing that I was like, "Hey, this is exciting and fun to me to hear what these women are up to, and what they've navigated, and what they're thinking about, what they're excited about." And I keep coming back now, too, to this theme of, I'm calling it the reckoning Yeah.
that a lot of mid-career women are having right now around, okay, what do we want the next season of life to look like?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: And so many of these women were asking those questions, but doing it with so much intention. And so that was really the origin of it. It was, I'm gonna just put out this, you know, weekly clip on LinkedIn, and I put it on YouTube at first because, I don't know, that's what I was told you were supposed to do.
Yeah. Like, put it on YouTube 'cause that's where people go when- Mm-hmm. So I do an hour long, typically, you know, full length video interview. Um, and it wasn't until, I don't know, maybe like- Four or five months in that one of the women I was interviewing was like, "Listen, I don't go on YouTube. Like, why don't you just have this as a podcast?"
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: Right, okay. I, I'll do that, you know? Yeah. So it kind of just evolved and, you know, I think for me it ended up being this really creative outlet that I had been seeking, and I just didn't really know that I, I still... I, I knew I needed something creative, but I just, I didn't know that I was really actively seeking it until- Mm-hmm
I started doing this. Um, and honestly it became, in a year of not tumult, but another year of like what am I doing, what am I trying to do, and a lot of gray, to have that anchor that I was like, "I'm doing this every single week, and I know that I have to like be true to this and see it through if I wanna see where it will go."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: It gave me an anchor that I also really needed in that season, um, that I, again, could not have said that out loud, but I look at it now and go, "Oh, that was like a real lifeline for me"- Yeah ...
Toby Myles: um,
Kristin Belden: you know, during a year that felt pretty tricky.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: And now it's like my favorite thing. And- Yeah. ... I just feel really lucky that I get to keep doing it.
I mean, people will say like, "How are you doing that every week?" I'm like, "It's the best part of my week."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: I don't-
Toby Myles: Ah,
Kristin Belden: yeah ... know, I will say I'm still doing all my editing and all that crap, and like if I could find a way to get rid of that part of it at some point I think it'd make it even more joyful.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, I, I... It would- mine would not exist without that- Yeah. ... piece of it 'cause I just refuse to do it. But, but like you, it has become my favorite thing that I do. Yeah. And one of the things, one, I guess the unexpected things, that I knew I was curious about other women and their stories.
But I didn't realize that it would give me an excuse to, to have these conversations. Like, "Hey, let's hop on a call- Yeah ... and let's see. You might be a good fit for the podcast." And I'm meeting all these amazing women, and I have something that I can offer to them, right? Mm. Instead of when y- it's always like so icky to me like to do these networking things where you're just ask- you're always asking for something, right?
Like I know we're in business, we're in business to make money. We want people to hire us. You know, we have to ask for the sale, right? But I like to give something in return too, and I think that that also has been kind of an unexpected, um- gift back to myself that I can offer that to someone. You know, if I meet someone on a call or whatever, like, "Hey, you know, I think you have a great story.
Why don't you come on my podcast?" And I would say like 99% of the people are like, "Oh my God, I'm, I would be so honored. I would love to." Yeah. I'm like, "Oh, really? Okay, great." Yes.
Kristin Belden: Yes, I know. I had to remind myself of that for a while. Like, it is, it's because we're not asking the Fortune 500 CEO or the next, you know, New York Times best seller-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm
Kristin Belden: it, it, it's not necessarily a natural thing for people to do or to be seeking out. And so it is a fun, like, oh, no, I, the, what you're doing is incredible and it's-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Kristin Belden: worthy of celebrating. And- Yes ... that was kind of the, and that kind of, kind of a big deal was born from this, you know, idea that we typically downplay our wins and brush off the compliments, right?
And so-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Kristin Belden: you know, just kind of a big deal, like the tongue in cheek. Yeah. Right? I love it. But no, like truly you are.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: And somebody else is gonna get to hear some piece of your story, and it's gonna, they're either gonna see themselves in it or like something will spark something in them that they're then excited to think about or do differently- Yeah
or consider. I'm wondering for you, I mean, my biggest hurdle was honestly having to like listen to myself again. Oh. Like having to hear it. Or like when I edited it the first time, I was like, "That is the cringiest thing I have ever done." I'm like less obnoxious now to myself than I was in the beginning.
But did you have a hard time with that when you first started putting stuff out there?
Toby Myles: Not really. I mean- You were good with it ... if, f- full disclosure, I d- don't usually listen to the entire thing. I will, I will remember if there's some things that need to be edited out. Yeah, yeah. And then I go back through and I find what I think is like a really good intro that I want my editor to put at the very beginning, and then other than that, I just, I don't go back and listen.
My husband of all people, you know, my podcast is called Her Origin Story. My husband listens to my podcast. He's probably listening now. He does it while he vacuums. My husband also vacuums. So to, to bonus point, brownie, bonus, bonus points, brownie points for those two things. But yeah, he'll talk to me, he's like, "Oh yeah, I listened to your episode with so-and-so.
That was really good." You know? I'm like- Yeah. I know ... I, I think it's so cool. I know. So, um, yeah. So it's, it's just, it has turned into something- I mean, it was something I talked about for so long, but I didn't know I was gonna love it so much. Yeah. And it sounds like, uh, you love yours as well, so.
Kristin Belden: Yeah, I love it.
I mean, it has really turned into... I mean, honestly, also something that I was not expecting, to your point, you know, way in the beginning of our conversation around the community aspect, I ended up, uh, I think, I don't know, by the th- third time that one of the guests was like, "When are you gonna bring us all together?
Can we do a dinner?" Mm. I was like, "All right. You're now the third person that's asked me that." Mm-hmm. So I did a dinner in March for the first season of guests, those that could make it.
Toby Myles: Love that. It,
Kristin Belden: it was so much fun. I mean, it was truly... You imagine the type of women that you're also getting on your show, I imagine are willing to be pretty vulnerable, open up a bit, right?
Mm-hmm. So when you bring that kind of energy into one room- Mm ... and everybody's looking to connect, it was so cool. And then I, I asked every... I actually assigned every woman another guest's interview to either watch or listen to- Mm-hmm ... and come ready to share something that they had either heard or was resonant for them or that they thought was cool.
And I thought people would come with like, you know, a note or two about like, "Oh, you know, you're amazing because of X, Y, and Z." These women came with full-on notes, like written out and bullet points and things to share. It was so much fun to watch with them ri- watch all the women writhe with like, "Oh my gosh, someone's talking about me-" Yeah
and about other people." But it was really, really cool. So I think
Toby Myles: that- Ah, what a great idea ...
Kristin Belden: yeah, that community side of it, that has been an unexpected real beautiful, you know, piece of it that I- Yeah ... was planning for, but I've been really, really excited to see develop.
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah. I had a guest recently, um, that thanked me for, um, providing this platform for women to tell their stories, and I never heard it phrased that way.
Kristin Belden: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Toby Myles: And it's... I kinda had a little proud moment, you know? You should. Which is- Yes ... as she said. 'Cause it's
Kristin Belden: kind of a big deal. No. It's
Toby Myles: kind of a big deal. So, um- Oh, it t- it ta- I want to just pause here just for a minute, because I'd love to know, because that's ... I said I'm nosy. When you were ... You talked about your, um, interest in art and working in galleries and things like that, and that's always what you thought you were gonna do.
Take me back to, like, little girl Kristen. Mm. D- were you, like, a creative person? Did you always think you were gonna be an artist or something in the arts, even back at, like, you know, 10 years old or something like that?
Kristin Belden: Yeah, I was that weirdo that was, like- ... holed up in my room drawing for hours. Yeah. I, I had these, um, I think my mom still has some.
I had these, like, um, notepads where I would grid them off, and then I would make, I would draw, like, little, um, outfits with, like, the shoes and the, you know, jewelry and the things and the purse. Mm-hmm. And I was, like, really convinced that I was gonna take those to some, like, kids' clothing store and they were gonna be like- Mm-hmm
"This is it." Like, "You are our next, you know, designer." Yeah. Like, I was so convinced of it. I ... It was very shocking to me when When
Toby Myles: it didn't happen.
Kristin Belden: It didn't happen. Um, so yes, I always loved ... I was also a dancer, so I ha- you know, was involved in the arts all growing up. And then I think, um, I just was never meant to be totally alone.
I think a lot of times, right, like when I went into art school, there's a lot to say about that, um, and how it can kinda beat a passion right out of you when you try and- Yeah. ... you know, to take something- Yeah ... that you love and, and turn
Toby Myles: it into- That'll ... Well, we'll have another episode, 'cause I also went to art school, so.
Kristin Belden: Oh, my God, I cannot wait. I want to hear everything. We'll
Toby Myles: do a whole separate episode
Kristin Belden: on it. This is also when, like, conceptual art was, like, the only thing. Like, there was, you know, it had to have some, like- deep, dark meaning or you, you know, come from some, born from some traumatic thing, and that was just not my relationship to art.
Mm-hmm. And so I really struggled during that season to figure out what my footing was. And, you know, every hour I spent alone in a studio, I was like, "I just wanna be out partying with my friends." I would-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Kristin Belden: it was, it was like a disconnect for me. I still very much loved the scene. And, you know, that's why working in art galleries was so much fun because I was still adjacent to it, but I wasn't the creator.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: Also say San Francisco at the time, and I would imagine it's probably still the same, you know, it's, it's a tricky scene to break into. It's not like this big, open kind of grassroots. It's, there's a couple galleries and there's a real hier- hierarchy as to like how you get in or even how you're involved.
And so-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Kristin Belden: I think I just got a little disillusioned-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ... from
Kristin Belden: that whole world for a while.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Kristin Belden: Um, but like my husband's like s- he, he's always really helped remind me, like creativity doesn't have to look like busting out a paintbrush every day. It can be- Exactly ... you know, in the way you're thinking about a challenge.
It can be in the way you're engaging with your community. There's, we tend to talk about creativity in such a narrow field. Mm-hmm. And so he's, he's really helped me as I've hemmed and hawed over the years of like, "What am I doing? Am I ever painting again?" Maybe not,
Toby Myles: but that's okay. That's fine. Yeah, my path was that I, um, I went to art school and I majored in graphic design.
So I did have a almost 20-year career as a graphic designer, and then got into marketing kind of through the, I always say through the back end because I had clients that just wanted brochures, but they had no marketing plan. So I kinda taught myself about market- marketing back in the day before it was really much of a thing.
Kristin Belden: Yeah.
Toby Myles: And, um, and have, I've had creative businesses off and on, on the side all the way. Yeah. Because for me, I always feel like something is missing when I'm not creating and making something. Um, even now I have an art studio on the other side of this wall, and I don't get in there- Oh ... as much as possible.
But, but that whole art school thing, yeah, we'll, we'll do a whole episode just on that.
Kristin Belden: Yes. Well, now I'm dying to know. Yes. Give me your like one sentence of what your takeaway was from-
Toby Myles: Well, my experience was, um, maybe a little bit different in that I was a little bit older. I had already like dropped out of college twice and gone back.
And so I was a little bit older than- I mean, then it seemed a lot older, but it really was probably, like, two years older. Right, right. And so... But that, at that age, that's a lot. Like, two years- Yeah ... is a lot, right? And then before I even graduated, I got married to my first husband, so I was commuting, so I wasn't living in the whole, you know-
Kristin Belden: Yeah
Toby Myles: s- dorm kinda world. So I had a very different experience, and I had, um, internships at two different ad agencies while I was in school, so I was very focused on, like, "This is my path to a job." Mm. And so I came, came at it from that point. But I will say that the shocking point to me was when I got out of school, things worked very differently than they taught us in school, right?
Like, in school, it's like you're trying to, um, come at a project from, like, "What's the best way to communicate this?" Right? And when I worked at my first agency, design agency, um, in Washington, DC when I got out, it was like, "How do we add all the bells and whistles to this piece so we win all these awards?"
And I was like, "What?"
Kristin Belden: What? "
Toby Myles: That's not how we do things." And we did. We won awards, but... And this was, you know, back in the day of pr- most of the things we did were, were print. It wasn't online, you know? Right. So it was all these fancy papers and varnishes and a- as many possible inks as you could possibly use, and all the things.
And so I lasted not even two years there before I decided I, I knew more than they did, and then I left and freelanced for the rest of the time. And I did not know more than they did, but, you know. Yeah. So, um, but this has been amazing. I honestly feel like we could just keep going. I keep thinking of things I wanna ask you, but I also wanna be respectful, and I want to give you a chance to, um...
First, what's one piece of advice you would give to somebody listening that might be thinking of, um, leaving a job, or they might find themselves in a situation like you did, where they were unexpectedly let go and they're just not sure, like, what is the next right step to take?
Kristin Belden: Hmm.
Toby Myles: Um, and then I want you to share how people can, can connect with you.
Kristin Belden: Oh, that's such a good question. Um, oof. I think it would be in the allowing of the quiet. And I don't even mean from a, I, I, like we were talking about earlier, people have real financial pressures, so I'm not trying to, to pretend like that's not reality. But that can still be true, and you can still find pockets to let yourself Get quiet.
Yeah. And I think that, for me, was the hardest part. It was, what do I do with my hands? I am so used to being go, go, go every single second of every single day. I don't know what quiet even is supposed to feel like. Mm-hmm. And that was so hard for me to let myself just not be moving every single second of every single day.
Yeah. And that, because it was forced upon me, I, you know, I could have filled that time with a- any number of things, but I found myself literally sitting on the couch staring into the void.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: And that's good. I actually now look at that and go, "Oh, I should be bringing more of that practice back into my life now."
Yeah. Right? It's the- Mm-hmm ... you tend to kinda keep going, and then you forget that those things actually serve us, not even, not only- Mm-hmm ... in times of, you know, challenging moments, but forever. And so I think it would just be that. Like, let yourself ... 'Cause we all do know, right? There are things in us that they, we do know, right, what the next step is, what we need to do.
But-
Toby Myles: Yeah ...
Kristin Belden: we've been so busy listening to what everyone else has been telling us what to do, that it can be really hard to, to let ourselves do that. Um- Yeah ... so I think it would be just getting quiet and letting that be true for a little while. Um, and just get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Kristin Belden: Um, and I am ... This is so embarrassing. I should have much easier ways for folks to find me. My website is a bit abysmal. But you can email me, so I can send you, um, all this information. I, I do have- Okay ... a website, beldenstrategies.com. You can book time with me there. Um, or send me an email, find me on LinkedIn.
Um, I'm in all the, the places. But one of these days I'm gonna have ... This is the other thing. Don't be a perfectionist. It's okay to get out there, do the thing. It'll all evolve. It'll all come.
Toby Myles: 1,000%.
Kristin Belden: It's okay.
Toby Myles: 1,000%, because people that say, "Oh, but I, I really need a website."
Kristin Belden: No, no.
Toby Myles: It's okay. Yes, but-
Kristin Belden: It'll happen
Toby Myles: you're, you're gonna change it a dozen times over the-
Kristin Belden: Within ... course ... my favorite ... Yes, one of my most favorite clients, one of my biggest projects, doesn't even know I have a website, right? Like, it, because of relationships- Yeah ... and all the rest, like, that's how it happens. And, and you get to build as you go.
And-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm ...
Kristin Belden: yeah, it will, it will eventually catch up, and you'll, you'll get there. But don't stop yourself just 'cause you don't have that perfect thing in place.
Toby Myles: Yes. That is great. That's gold right there. Kristen, thank you so much. This has been so much fun. I knew it would be. Um- Great. Yeah. I appreciate it
and I really ap- yeah, I really appreciate having you on the show.
Kristin Belden: Thank you for having me. This has been ... It is very bizarre to be on the other side, I will say. But it's been fun. You've made it- Good ... us, so thank you.
Toby Myles: Good. I'm glad.
Kristin Belden: Good to see you. And then you'll be coming on my show, so we'll get to chat. I
Toby Myles: will.
Kristin Belden: Yes. I'm excited.
Toby Myles: I'm excited too. All right. All right. Thank you.
Kristin Belden: Thank you. Bye.