Brandi Holder turned one of the hardest moments of her life into a catalyst for change. In this episode, we talk about standing at the podium for her husband’s eulogy while work calls buzzed on her phone, and how that painful disconnect reshaped her belief that peace and joy aren’t “someday” goals, but choices we make today.
Check Out These Highlights:
Brandi reflects on the seed that started her entrepreneurial path: her late husband’s encouragement to work for herself instead of climbing the corporate ladder. That shift revealed her natural curiosity and drive to question systems, even when it made her a “bad employee” in rigid corporate environments.
She opens up about one of the hardest moments of her life; standing at the podium for her husband’s eulogy while her phone buzzed with work calls. That painful disconnect between her values and her reality became the catalyst for reshaping her business and life.
Brandi shares how she now helps founders and small teams untangle their strengths, values, and energy so they can grow without burning out. We talk about the importance of humor, curiosity, and self‑trust, why social media narratives can distort reality, and how she guides clients to “out‑evidence” the limiting stories holding them back.
Her story is a reminder that entrepreneurship exposes every weakness, but it also offers the chance to build businesses that support life, not cost it.
About Brandi Holder:
Brandi Holder is a marketing consultant and coach who helps founders and small teams align their strengths, values, and energy to grow sustainably. She believes peace and joy are not distant goals, but choices we can make today.
Connect with Brandi:
🌐 Website: https://www.brandiholder.com/
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bholder1/
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bh_explains_it_all/
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About Me: https://tobymyles.com/about/
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Hey everyone, you are in for a real treat this week. My guest today is Brandi Holder, a marketing consultant and coach who helps founders and small teams untangle their strengths, values, and energy so they can grow without burning out. In this episode, Brandi shares one of the hardest moments of her life, standing at the podium delivering her husband's eulogy while her phone buzzed with work calls and her team knew exactly where she was. In that moment, she realized she wasn't living the values she'd always claimed to hold. We talk about what came after. Her belief that peace and joy are a today thing, not a someday thing, and how that shaped the way she now helps her clients build businesses that don't cost them their lives. Are you ready? Okay, let's do it
Toby Myles: Hey, Brandi. Welcome to the podcast.
Brandi Holder: Hi, I'm so happy to be here today. How fun is this?
Toby Myles: This is s- super fun. Uh, I usually start by saying how we know each other, and I, I find this so interesting. You and I, uh, have been LinkedIn connections for years at this point, right?
Brandi Holder: Yeah.
Toby Myles: Um, I have followed you, I followed your content, and have engaged in your content.
Um, and s- I don't know, it was, like, a few months ago, I was like, "Why have we not ever gotten on a call to get to know each other better?" I, I had no good reason, so I messaged you, and you were open to it, and I knew right away that I wanted to invite you to come on the podcast, and I'm thrilled that you said yes.
We've had already so many good conversations. In fact, before I pressed record, we were having really good conversation about the books that we're writing, and maybe we'll get into that. And it... That always happens, like, we start talking about something, I think, "Ooh, we shoulda hit record." So I, I feel like I might start doing bloopers, right?
Where I just hit record from the minute we get on, and we'll see what- whatever happens. So I'm gonna stop talking, and I'm gonna ask you to share with us, uh, what... If you could take us back to a moment in time that you feel like really put you on the path that you're on right now, what would that be?
Brandi Holder: Oh, gosh.
You know, I always think there's, there's, like, several, and I think it depends on what part of, you know, what aspect of my business I'm thinking about that day. You know, I originally got on this path of having my own business by accident, and that was because my late husband had worked for himself for a really, really long time, and I had been working in corporate America for a long time.
And he said to me one day, "Why are you working like this for someone else when you could do it for yourself?" And I just had... It, it had never entered my mind that that was possible, because that was not examples I had in my life. And so I think that that was really, like, the first seed of how I got here.
Um, but there's definitely an evolution that's come into my business that, that has happened at a different point, which I think happens to us, right? Mm-hmm. We go down a path, and there are things that change our business and change our mind. And so the work I'm doing today is, has come to me in a, a little bit different way, which I'm...
We can get into that now, or we can go down a different... Who knows where we're going on this episode?
Toby Myles: Who knows? We have no idea where we're going. But I do wanna touch on what you just said. You were so good at your job, and you pulled on the strings and, and you had these great strengths, but it made you a bad employee.
Brandi Holder: Yes.
Toby Myles: And I think that that happens more often than we care to acknowledge, and so I would love for you to elaborate on that.
Brandi Holder: Yeah. It's just, it's so funny to me because that has really become the underpinning of the work that I do with people now.
It's, I, I have a lot of curiosity, and I have a lot of care and concern for the, for the user experience, for the customer experience. And while those are really wonderful things on their own because they do drive a good experience for the person that I'm, that I'm trying to create that for, in a corporate setting, they have a very well-defined system and process, which is wonderful.
That's great that they have that because that's how they've made a company go, right, by having systems and process. But when you have someone like me coming into a corporate environment who's always questioning and saying, "But can't we do this better? Why can't we do it this way? Why are we doing it this way?"
And then being handed a manual that says, "We've always done it this way."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Brandi Holder: Those things di- it just was not a good fit for me because it would be like, "But why? But why?" And I could never really get an answer to why we couldn't make things, you know, evolve to, to really take care of the customer or the client that was coming through our system.
And so I just started to realize that although I'm not an entrepreneur, I would never call myself that, there's definitely that entrepreneurial spirit there where I thought, if I can see things a, a different way and a better way, it's not that I can do them better, it's just that I think that maybe we're very limited in what we're doing here because we're stuck in our thinking, right?
Mm-hmm. So as I started to really explore that, that was, that was when I realized I'm just not... I'm a great employee if we're gonna go up the corporate ladder, but long-term, that was just never gonna work out for me.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. It can be really tough to be inside of a big corporation and, and objectively seeing how we think things can be done better, but not being in that position of authority to influence any change, and then just feeling like you just kinda have to suck it up, you know?
Yeah. I had an amazing boss at the very last job that I had, and I say that she was amazing because she was somebody that- She had our backs, right? She gave us the freedom to do our jobs. We treated our, our, our work as if we were running our own small business. Our, our clients were... We were responsible for our clients.
We had a lot of authority to make decisions, but she was there to help if we needed to escalate if there was some issue, right? But I feel like over the years, she just, she realized that things c- uh, in the corporation were, had been done that way. We've always done that way. There's, you know, process in place for all these things, and the process grew out of, you know, X, Y, and Z, and that's why it's there.
And I honestly think towards the end of her career, she just gave up trying to change anything, you know? Yeah. So in that regard, it was like, wow, I don't know that I could be that person in that role for very long. I would ... I, I feel like I would just be, you know, the disgruntled employee.
Brandi Holder: Yeah, absolutely.
When you see those kinds of ceilings and you see the apathy happen, and I feel like that's something that I'm seeing in a lot of frontline staff right now, and I work with solo operators and, and founders with small teams, so obviously the corporate environment's different, and I know that the world has changed, and there's a lot of uncertainty and a lot of things going on.
But when you go into an environment like, like a big box retail store, and the entire frontline looks dead behind the eyes, I just think like, "Oh my gosh, that means that the, the leadership spirit has been killed in some places," right? Mm-hmm. And people don't feel like they have autonomy, or they don't feel like they can make things happen, or they don't feel like there's, there's energy.
And, you know, that for me has really become the source code of everything that I'm doing is, is the energy piece, and it sounds really woo. And I guess in, in a lot of respects, it is very woo coming from a really practical background. But I don't know, I just think that, I think that loss of curiosity and loss of spirit and those things that we see dull in our environments like that are just such a
It's such a hard thing to witness because if you ... Once you have that loss, it's ... How, how do you get it to come back?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brandi Holder: You
Toby Myles: know? Yeah, for sure. So, uh, um, I guess go into a little bit more about the work that you do, how you do work with those solo operators with small teams. Can you kinda give us kind of a, a glimpse into what that looks like?
Brandi Holder: Yeah. I, I absolutely love the work that I'm doing now, and it has really come out of a place of understanding this, this mental and physical piece that I feel like is missing from a lot of, um, a lot of the engagements out there. You know, I have a very practical backg- ground being a consultant. I've been in marketing for 20 years now, probably more than 20 years, and as I sat with founders and talked about marketing, we were not just talking about marketing, right?
We were talking about these very things we're talking about right now, where you have this loss of energy in the team, or you've got some communication issues, or, you know, you've got some kind of failure to grow piece and it's because there's, you know, a ICP that doesn't match anymore or a wrong targeting.
I mean, it was like we were moving way beyond some of the marketing stuff and into I'm afraid to close bigger deals, or I'm- Mm ... afraid to, you know, do these things. And once I started to see that- A lot of that was the thing that I experienced in a corporate environment- Mm-hmm ... where it was like, a, like a, like a visionary CEO who can build this amazing stuff and get it out into the market.
They're also going at a speed that the rest of the team can't keep up with, and they're driving everybody crazy, right? Yes. Mm-hmm. 'Cause they're this ... They're like, "We can do this, and now we're gonna do this," and like, then there's, there's 62 moving parts when there really needs to be two. Mm-hmm. And you have a team that feels frustrated and guilty and, you know, they're working crazy hours, and their energy gets depleted.
And so once I started looking at all of that and I could see that that thing that happened to me, I could see it playing out with a lot of the clients I was working with. Mm-hmm. I went back to get some more training so that I could offer something else to go with the marketing piece, and that was, like, the, the support on where your values are in conflict, where your strengths and values are in conflict with the next step of where you're going.
So taking that really practical piece but extending it beyond just marketing campaigns. And then also, you have to have the energy to execute what you're doing, right?
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Brandi Holder: And if your energy isn't big enough to be solving a lot of these problems that are ahead of you, then now you're operating from the stress response, and the stress response absolutely kills your ability to think creatively.
Mm. So just being able to bring those pieces into my client has just been ... It's been so fun because you see people come in with a really specific problem, like a revenue problem, and then now we need to talk about You know, is this a, a conflict in your strengths? Like, we're gonna use your strengths, and they're really wonderful, but how can we use them to move yourself, you know, move you and your organization to the next level?
Mm-hmm. And now we're getting into the energy piece.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. So
Brandi Holder: yeah, it's been fun.
Toby Myles: I'm curious, 'cause you mentioned a revenue problem. I mean, do people usually know what their problem is? I mean, revenue is obvious. That's pretty obvious. But, like, the other things that are uncovered by working with you, do people usually know, or is it kind of like going to therapy where they're like they just know they're not happy, and things are out of alignment, and, uh, you know, they're not excited about their business or what have you?
Uh, and then they discover through the process of working with you what those things are. I would guess that you being the outsider looking in, you have a gift for being able to pinpoint some of those things.
Brandi Holder: Yeah. I would say for probably all of us, we never know the real problem, right? Like-
Toby Myles: Right ...
Brandi Holder: that's why I, I have my own coach because I always think I know the problem, and then I get in there with her, and I'm like, "Oh, well, here's, here's two more things that are in the way."
Yeah. But yeah, I- they've called it business therapy a lot. People have called it business therapy because, you know, sometimes we think that, you know, and I spend a lot of time ... The project that I've been working on this year is, is about this noise in the market that nobody's buying, and that if you even talk to someone it's a pitch slap.
And, you know, all of this stuff where people are talking about how hard it is in 2026, which is very accurate, by the way. Mm-hmm. And I'm not here to be diminishing of anyone's experience because I had some very flat growth in the past year as well. Mm-hmm. So I'm not saying that the market isn't responding differently, but there's an opportunity there to say, "Okay, I can take the evidence that's in front of me, and I can roll with it, or maybe I can look at things a different way."
So the project that I started doing in there was kind of to help my clients, to say to them, "Yes, this is what you're hearing in the market, but if you just change the way that you're showing up and change the way that you're asking and bringing people into your business, then you can collect evidence that's different."
Right? We're gonna out evidence the story that's in front of you. Mm. So that's really been the goal of the work that I do with anybody is how we're gonna out evidence a story and how we're gonna disidentify with some of the old habits that maybe got us to here. Mm-hmm. And now we need to move into a different level.
So what are, what are these new habits that we're building, and where are we letting go of some of the old stuff? So I would say no, we don't, we never really know what the issue is coming in. I think it's just people who have, you know, some self-awareness and a really big sense of humor. I always tell everybody, like, those are the people I love working with.
Mm. Because when you have a sense of humor, and you probably know this from your own clients, when you have a sense of humor, I swear you can do anything.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Brandi Holder: Right?
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah.
Brandi Holder: When you think about this, when you're asking people to tell a story and they have to get really deep into some things that feel like a war story or don't feel fully resolved, you know, if you can bring a little bit of levity to that, I feel like that just moves things so quickly.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. I think that it, it kind of boils down to, like, do we really want to grow and, and can we laugh at ourselves about mistakes or shortcomings that we have or just knowing that, you know, maybe we're stubborn about certain things, and having someone say, "Yeah, you know, you really need to, like, set that aside in order to, to be able to g- get what you want."
Like, the ultimate goal is to build, you know, the business or the project that you envision, right?
Brandi Holder: Yeah.
Toby Myles: And so it's, that's really fascinating to me how that all can, um, can play out. So, um, then h- then what are the, would be, like, the next steps once you... Well, first of all, I want to circle back to, to the thing you said about, you know, creating a new story around something, right?
Do you, um- Like over the years that you have worked kind of in this way, how much do you feel like social media influences people's thinking, right? Because you talked about like, you know, nobody's buying. People, everyone's saying, "Oh, nobody's buying, nobody's buying," right? But if people would just like turned off of social media and just m- you know, worked in their own businesses and doing those things and connecting with people, building those relationships, I feel like that in and of itself would be so helpful.
Brandi Holder: Oh, yeah. That's such an interesting question. I, I think it's like the one of those necessary evils sometimes we feel like- Yeah ... that we have in our business and I don't know, I, I really found myself getting very swept away in all of that negative narrative stuff at the beginning of the year. Mm-hmm. And I, I have a really soft heart, so that's gonna hap- those, those things are always gonna happen to me.
Um, but I just felt, I felt like I was getting on there and I was just seeing it talked about so much and it became so repetitive. Yeah. And then of course with social media, once you watch something it serves it up to you, right? Right. So it was like all this stuff was coming at me and I was just, oh my gosh, it just felt overwhelming.
And yeah, I, I absolutely believe there's some truth to that. It, it really, I think it can influence our mood in a good or a negative way. Mm-hmm. Um, I think there's a lot of good that we can do with it, like this platform that you have here, you know, that you're creating a space for people is, uh, it's a, it's a place from generosity, right?
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Brandi Holder: And I think these are the things that I looked for when I had a lot of difficulties in my own life and business. I was always looking for some uplifting stories and some examples of people who have gone through hard things and made it. Mm. Founders that come on a podcast like this and tell their origin story.
I think it's such an important gift to give because, I mean, there is a lot of survivorship bias, right? We see the successful pieces. But when you're really going through it and you're really trapped in the negativity, to be able to pull a thread somewhere, and I think that it's, you can find that online, but just like you said, being able to have a direct conversation with someone.
And I think for me that's always been the game changer is just being able to get on a, a call with somebody, a stranger, you know, an acquaintance or, or whoever it is and, and just have a conversation. You know, "What's going on in your world? Tell me, tell me something good."
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah. I think that's, just for me personally I've- I find myself logging in to mostly LinkedIn.
Instagram's more just for fun at this point, but I'll, I'll log into LinkedIn and I just find, like, so much of the same stuff. I g- I actually get bored, and I mean this n- of no offense to anybody listening, because I'm still on there myself creating content. Like you said, you know, it's, it's almost like a necessary evil.
Like, we need it, but how much do we need it and how do we use it in the right way? Uh, and I, I get tired of seeing all the slams on AI. It's like, all right, like, people are using it. Everybody knows people are using it. You know, you got the AI police pointing out who's using it. Like, I, I'm bored with that.
I... Tell me a good story. Tell me how you overcame something or tell me something relatable, right? Because we have all been there. If you're around long enough, you have struggled with something behind the scenes, whether it's, you know, in your business or personally. And why don't people wanna talk about that more?
Like, that's- Yeah ... the stuff that is relatable, 'cause we have all gone through these things.
Brandi Holder: Yeah, absolutely, but it feels so scary, right? It feels scary to say- Yeah ... to say out there, "I had a really terrible year," or- Yeah ... "I had this thing that happened." But, you know, that's something that I, I talk with my clients about a lot.
You know, when they're coming in with a revenue problem, it's h- there's usually some kind of unresolved war story there, right?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Brandi Holder: I hate to call everything a mindset problem, but I think as I... You know, I've been doing this, I've been doing this work alone now for 11 years, which is very surprising to me.
But especially in the last, um, gosh, it's been four years now, I've been really diving deeper into this energy piece. Mm-hmm. But that's what I'm seeing so often, is that they have some kind of war story that feels very- Mm-hmm ... unresolved. Mm. And then they're bringing that. That's causing them to shrink in their next asks and in their, you know, levels of visibility, in their posting content and doing the thing, but never really making the swings because- Yeah
the swing is what caused them to hurt the last time, or they fell down on their face, or it just didn't work out, and I don't know. It, it obviously it sucks going through stuff like that, but every single one of us has that. Yeah. And when we start to resolve those pieces, we take those bigger swings again, right?
Toby Myles: Yeah, yeah. And I think, too, it can... It, like, losing a client can really cause you to question- Am I doing the right thing? Is my work good enough? Was it, you know, what was the thing? Because you don't always get that closure with a client. Absolutely. Uh, at least I don't always get that closure with a client.
And for me, it's usually boiled down to a financial decision or especially with AI, you know, they're bringing things in-house. Um, and so it- it's usually that, but still, it's... It doesn't feel good to- No ... lose a client that you've spent years building a relationship with, right? And it can really cause you to kind of, like, question everything.
It's like, "What am I even doing?"
Brandi Holder: Yeah. There's a, a little thing I see floating around quite a bit that says, uh, "Owning your own business is the best therapy you could ever have."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Brandi Holder: Because it exposes every single weakness in your- Yeah ... thinking and, and everything. Like, you have to raise your prices, and now you're getting into your money stories from when you were a kid, and you have to- Mm-hmm
you've lost a client, and now you're... It's a rejection thing. Like, the... It touches every single thing that you've ever created in your operating system and in your self-talk. That, that business is gonna expose all of that.
Toby Myles: Yes, for sure. It's, it's self-growth- ... ti- times a million.
Brandi Holder: Yeah. Absolutely. But I don't know.
Maybe we're, like, gluttons for punishment. I don't know. I just keep coming back for more, so.
Toby Myles: I, I think the same thing. I was having a conversation with ye- so- with someone yesterday about that it is not for everybody, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I know plenty of people- Totally ... that say, "I could not do it," and I...
That doesn't make n- them less than or me better. It's just Y- you have to have a certain tolerance for the uncertainty. You have to have a pretty thick skin. Um, you know, and you have to kinda give yourself some, some grace when things don't go well, and then you just, you know, you lick your wounds and you say, "Okay."
Like, for me, I always say I allow myself to have a pity party, whatever that looks like, you know, junk food and ice cream, whatever. But then, you know, the next day it's like, "Okay, I gotta figure this out," and I, you know, the wheels start turning again. And i- it's happened so many times to me in, in this business, and I've had other businesses before, that I've kinda gotten used to n- to the idea that it is just how it goes, the, the ebb and flow, the highs, the lows, the uncertainty, the h- having this what you think is, like, the most amazing idea and having it just, like, flop and fall flat.
Brandi Holder: Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I, when I talk to people who are very early in their journey, I always, you know, I always say, "Does it get any easier?" You know, d- the feast and famine and the things, and I'm like, "I don't know that it, I don't know that it gets easier. I think you just get used to the cycles."
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Brandi Holder: You just get...
Y- you know that mark- the market swings, you know that public mood swings, you know that- Mm-hmm ... when you put out new offers, exactly like you said, some of them just f- I mean, they just fall all the way down, right? Mm-hmm. You try a new target market or you, you try to go into a different part of your market and it, it just doesn't go the way you think it does and, but it all comes back.
And so I think that's been the, the learning thing for me is, yes, there are, there are times that are better than others, but I think it's just there's a little bit of stability under the current that always tells me that I can keep coming back to that baseline, right? Mm-hmm, yeah. And, and a lot of that has to do with my confidence in myself, my self-trust, having an, a, an incredible amount of people around me that support me, having a supportive partner, you know, having a coach, having experts.
Like, having those people around you, that was a really big game changer for me. I did it solo for the first four years, and it, it was so much harder, and then once I started bringing people in to help me, I was like, "Oh my gosh."
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. "
Brandi Holder: Why did I wait so long?" Mm-hmm,
Toby Myles: mm-hmm. It's so funny that you say that because last year I hired a VA, and I know you're talking about different, different types of people, uh, th- that you bring in to help you, you know, paid and unpaid.
Uh, but last year I hired a VA, and I ha- I had hired VAs before and it, and things just didn't work out. And looking back, I know that I was really more the problem than they were. I was not really being a very good leader. I wasn't, uh- Really taking the time to show them how I wanted things done and what my process was.
But I did have this belief for a long time that I had to get to a certain level before I could get help, and that was actually the opposite. Because once I did actually have help in my business and somebody that we, you know, she's really a part of my team. I call her my VA, but she's a part of my team, and I could not do this podcast without her because I'm not tech-savvy.
But- Once she became a part of my team, I realized, like, wow, I can do so many more things, not just the podcast, but I can work on my book and I can build a course and I, you know ... And it's almost like it just opened up this whole other world of possibilities where things before that I might have said, "Eh, I don't know if I can really pull that off," now I know that I can either with her help or with somebody else's help, right?
Brandi Holder: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think any help you bring in that can help you move into your gifts and not be spread so thin- Mm-hmm ... whether that's a VA or having a, a partner. I've been thinking about that a lot. I think this is the first year that I've really thought that I might really enjoy having a, a deeper collaboration, uh, you know- Mm-hmm
maybe something closer to a partnership with somebody who does the ... I don't like to do the content. I do, I do the, I like the written content, but all of the stuff that's required to do the content, all the thumbnails and putting it here and putting it there, I'm like, "That's just not my jam," and what if I work with someone who that is their, like their passion in life, you know what I mean?
Mm-hmm. So I've been, I've been thinking about that too, and I've definitely had times where I've had more support than less. I have a lot of administrative support right now. I, I have people, you know, that come in and do the things that, like the bookkeeping and then I have housekeeping support, which I love.
My mother calls me bougie for having- ... keeping support. But my goodness, it, there, I love the ladies that come in. They're wonderful people, and they help me do something that helps me do something that I'd prefer to do that I'm much better at, right? Yep. Mm-hmm. You know? And just even if I have, um, meal support or, you know, just whatever I've got that I'm bringing in, all of that little support I feel like adds up.
And the thing that's really important for me is as I build my wealth, I want to give that back. I'm not trying to put all that in AI or whatever tech company, right? I am trying to spend my dollars to help other people spend their dollars. So that's always been really important to me to bring people into my business because I'm putting that money out into the economy, into a real person's pocket, and that feels so good to me.
Mm-hmm. And it's such an important part of, of one of my missions.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that you brought that up because I, I don't remember who it was who told me many, many years ago that like having somebody come and, you know, m- do meal service or, or having a meal service or clean your house or whatever is every bit as helpful as having somebody help you in your business, right?
Because if you're Working, you know, long hours and, you know, drained and things like that, the last thing you feel like doing in your free time is cleaning your house.
Brandi Holder: Yeah. And they just, they, they are fast and cheerful and a delight to be around. Mm-hmm. And I don't know, I always tell my boyfriend, I said, "I think I'm in a relationship with our staff here," because I would give up so many things to always keep them advanced.
You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like, that's just, that, 'cause that's something that helps me do something that I really love, and so I don't know. I know people have thoughts about it, but I have wonderful thoughts about it, so.
Toby Myles: Yes. I have had people come and clean for me at different times. I don't now, um, but I, I know I will in the future, and I, I agree with you.
I don't... Um, my thoughts are that this is somebody that also has a business.
Brandi Holder: Mm-hmm.
Toby Myles: And they enjoy doing what they're doing, otherwise they probably wouldn't do it. They're probably making good money from it, and they're supporting their families and- W- why wouldn't ... I don't look down on them. They, they do a better job than me.
Like, I'm terrible at cleaning my house.
Brandi Holder: Yeah, and I just really love this idea of being able to put my money into the economy in real people's pockets, you know? Yeah. Yep. That, that's such an important thing, and, you know, to be able to hire people at whatever stage, whether it's a VA or some expert or a coach or, you know, just whatever it is.
Like, I love that. I, I can't wait to be able to do more of that. That's my goal is, like, to be able to hand off so many pieces because really the reality is is the life is really short. Mm-hmm. And I love, I absolutely love what I do, and I love my clients, and I have the coolest clients right now, and I have the coolest people in my network.
But I'm here to, to do that and to spend time with the people that I love, right? Right. Yep. I don't wanna do all the parts. No. I don't wanna do all the parts anymore 'cause I'm terrible at all of the parts. Mm-hmm. And then what's left over?
Toby Myles: Right. You
Brandi Holder: know what
Toby Myles: I mean? Right. Exactly, and we can love our businesses, um, but we can love the way they fit into our life as well, right?
It's not only about the business. I think the b- businesses afford us the opportunity to, to live a life that feels good to us, you know? What, what does that look like day to day? Um, the one thing that you mentioned is that, like, um, peace and joy in your life is not a someday thing. It's a today thing. Um, and so I wonder if you could, like, talk about that a little bit more, and I, I don't know if you kind of have come to that through some of the harder times you've experienced in your life, but I would love for you to talk a little bit more about that.
Brandi Holder: Yeah. That is such an important part of everything that I do because I have tried it the other way. I tried it the way where I worked 60 hours a week, and the phone rang all the time, and, um, you know, I, I worked a lot, and I chased money, and I s- I believe money is very, very important because of what we can do with it.
So I'm not here to say that money is not important because- Mm-hmm ... I went through a health crisis with my husband, and I am so extremely thankful for all of the money that I was making because it allowed me to do things that I would not have otherwise been able to do. But at that time I was still very much wrapped up in my achievement world, and so that phone was going all the time, and I'm, you know, connected to that computer all the time.
And when my husband passed away, I remember it was a Sunday, so I should have been off that day, and I remember standing at the podium, and I ha- it was a very informal ceremony 'cause he was not a formal guy. Um, and I'm, I have my phone and I'm reading some, some beautiful poetry, and my phone is going off in the, the contract that I'm in when they know that that's exactly what I'm doing at that time.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Brandi Holder: And it was this really- crazy thing because you would've thought that my first instinct would've been rage, but it was really mixed with something very troubling. It was this weird sense of obligation to my team that was really competing with what I needed in the moment, which was to be present and to, to honor and grieve.
And that was, that was the click for me, that I realized that- I realized that I had been given this example of how short life is, but I was not living in the example of what I had been given. So I was really out of conflict with the values that I had created for myself and I thought, "What is the point of, what is the point of all of this if I'm not living into the life that I know that I should be living?"
And so that was kind of the thing that really started to kick into gear for me, that maybe I don't, I can still want money and I can still, you know, be really proud of my achievements and do all those things, but what if I'm coming from a much different grounded place about bringing peace and joy into my life today instead of making...
That was always, like, off the to-do list. It was like, "I'll, I'll feel better when I have time." Mm-hmm. "I'll take care of myself when I have time. I'll take that vacation when I have time." When does that come, Toby? Yeah. When does it ever show up? You just keep pushing it off the to-do list, right?
Toby Myles: Yep. Yeah, for sure.
I, uh, I, I tell this story, I have told this story in different places. I recorded an anniversary episode where Christy Mitchell interviewed me. Uh, we flipped the mic and she interviewed me about my origin story, and one of the things I talked about was the summer that my husband was diagnosed with multiple myeloma and I had already said that I wanted to start my business and when that happened, I thought, "Oh my gosh, I can't, like, this is...
I can't do this now. Things are..." We didn't know. The future was so uncertain. And he said, "No, this is when you should do it because look, like, you don't know what the future is gonna hold. Like, we didn't expect this diagnosis." And I think about that often, you know, when I think about something that I wanna do, like anything, traveling or, uh, you know, saying yes to taking a day off to, you know, play with my grandkids or, you know, whatever, traveling in the RV.
Whatever the thing is, I think about that often. It's like, yeah, sure, you can put it off, but you just never know that you're gonna get that opportunity.
Brandi Holder: Yeah.
Toby Myles: And, um, I'm trying to remember who said it. I think I heard it on a Mel Robbins podcast. Uh, one of her guests said l- to live a lifetime in a day.
Yeah. And what she meant by that was, like, do the things today. Like, if you wanna, you know, read your book or do something creative like paint or crochet or go to the movies or eat the ice cream, like, don't wait till vacation or the weekend, right? Like, every day should be filled with the things that you love and, like you said, peace and joy.
And it, it's, unfortunately for some of us, it takes kind of a, a tragedy or a terrible diagnosis to learn that lesson. And, um, hopefully, you know, by hearing other people's stories, your story, my story- People s- you know, say, "Wow, yeah." Like, anything could happen at any given time.
Brandi Holder: Yeah. And I, I think you're right.
It sometimes it does take that, it takes some kind of trigger, which is unfortunate it took a trigger for me. But, and everyone is ... When I, I hate to, sometimes I hate to tell that story because it, it feels so heavy, like I'm trying to pull people into grief. Mm-hmm. But that was actually such a, a joyful time for us because since my eyes have been wide open, I did have that experience you were talking about, and it, it's a totally different way to live when you know, like I would just take off for the day and we would go, if I burnt dinner, we'd go out and have wine and ice cream.
We would do all the things that you always joke that you're gonna do. "Oh, we'll just have, we'll just have dessert for dinner tonight." We did those things, and we traveled, and we went places that I always said, you know, I wanted to go to DC and I always said, "I'll go to that, I'll do that later," and go to the National Archives, so it's like a, a nerd person's dream.
That was like, you know, to be able to be there and experience and know that I was having a moment that I would not have had before, it is such a beautiful way to live. And I don't, I just don't think it should have to take a trigger. I think that going through a divorce, losing a job that you really loved that was felt like the rug was pulled out from under you.
Or, you know, we have, we're all going to have moments of tragedy in our life. It's just inevitable, and I think, and it, it sucks, right? Mm-hmm. You can't say that everything is a, you know, oh, it's such a blessing and I don't want to put- Yeah ... saccharine on it. But if you are able to have a gift of knowing that life is short and that things are short, then you do live in the moment a little bit better, and I think that's just such a beautiful thing.
And I don't know, I, I appreciate that time in my life that now I get to give, try to open that up for my clients a little bit.
Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I have told people that understand what it's like to go through a diagnosis and then treatment with somebody that has cancer or, or could be other illnesses too, that some of our best moments together as a couple have been in an infusion room, you know, when you're there for hours- Yeah
and you don't necessarily, I mean, you know why you're there, but y- you just are present and with each other, and the conversation and the joking and the laughter, and it seems so opposite of what you would be feeling in that moment, but You, I think you learn to be, like, really grateful for just those moments, those hours, that day.
Uh, and it's, it, it's, you know, I, I mean, I wish that it wasn't the reality that we're in, but I'm also, in some ways, grateful for, for our experience.
Brandi Holder: Yeah. It's, uh, I know that experience very well. And, uh, looking at, like, little kids would bring in their drawings and stuff. Like, I remember just sitting there and, and thinking about, like, I get to be here with this person when I have said so much of my career, "I'll do that later," or been so annoyed by everything that came into my world, right?
And I'm not gonna say I wasn't that way at first, right? I mean, it, it took me a while. I, I think that part of the gift that I've been given is that I had a very selfish heart. I was at work. I, that's who I was. That's what I was doing. And, you know, I had to, when you have somebody that you have to care for in your life, you have to put yourself to the side, except for your health, which we're- Mm-hmm
not always very good at. Right. Um, but yeah, to just be present in a moment, um, yeah, that was, that also really helped me look at why health is so important. Mm-hmm. I mean, we can't solve everything, and we can't prevent everything, but if you have a baseline of health and mental wellness that you are managing on a daily basis, it does improve your life, and it improves the lives of the people around you, too.
Toby Myles: Yeah, for sure. So I want to make sure that in this conversation we get to talk a little bit about your book that you're working on. Uh, it is one of the reasons why I reached out to you initially when I did, because I'm also writing my memoir, and I saw that you were as well. And, um, I, I just, I know you're still in the process of it, but can you just talk a little bit about, um, what you're working on?
Brandi Holder: Yeah. It's, it really follows this vein of what we've been talking about, and, um, it's about feeling really lost. You know, I, I describe it as, I don't know if you remember the, the Wile E. Coyote, uh, cartoons and the Road Runner. Mm-hmm. But there's the very famous scene in all of the cartoons where, you know, the, he's chasing the Road Runner, and they're running, running, running, running, running, and then Wile E.
Coyote looks down and realizes that he's run off the cliff and there's nothing beneath him, right? Yes. Like, that is what it felt like to, to lose my husband, because I had been working really hard, and I had been doing all the things. And then you would think after he passed away that the grief would have hit me immediately, and it does for some people, but it took a year for that to find its way to me.
And when I finally looked down, there was no ground underneath me. It was a really, it rocked my identity to the core. It really made me think about and question what I was doing and where my life was going and the kind of person I wanted to be. But, you know, more than that, I think it just- It just was really eye opening, um, to realize that you can be functionally depressed, which is probably where I was.
Mm-hmm. You know, we ta- I don't think that we talk about this kind of stuff enough in the entrepreneurial world, where we talk about self talk and the wellness piece, which had really just all gone by the wayside for me. You know, my self talk had gotten really dark and really negative, and I was in a well of depression, and nobody knew it.
I didn't know it. My friends didn't know it. I mean, it just wasn't evident from the outside until I started to look at, look at it. And so that's kind of what the book is. It's not ... I'm not proposing to be a doctor or a counselor or a therapist in any stretch of the imagination, but it's really about things that rock our identity and what can happen to us, things that are, are a normal part of that experience.
Mm-hmm. You know, what they feel like for people when they go through it. And, and I also put some checklists. I want people to write in the book and tear it up, so I actually have a book that, like, you can, like, mangle, because I want you to tear the checklist out that's kind of got, like, a pre-depression checklist in it.
Like, who are you talking to about the things that you do in your life, and what happens when they're going away? Like, if you're a person who walks every day, if you're a person who's very social and those things start to leave what you're doing- Mm ... that's pretty much your first indication that you're heading to the well of depression.
And so I've got a lot of that kind of stuff in there, too. And then it's about, you know, what's on the other side of that? And I don't know, because that's different for everybody, but- Yeah ... when you have a, a something that rocks your identity, what are you gonna do with it, right? Where's, where ... What's the next step for you?
So it's, it's kind of an open question, which we talked a little bit about this before we started recording, but it's like how do you, how do you share an experience but then not wrap it up in a bow so that you can leave that for a person to take with them and solve on- Mm-hmm ... solve on their own?
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm.
Yeah, because everybody's experience is different. I lost my brother in 2023, and I remember the whole rest of that year was just, I, I ... Nothing felt important. Nothing felt more important than losing a sibling, you know? You grow up, and there were four of us kids, and now all of a sudden one of us was gone, and it was just such a, a strange experience.
And I just You know, I wanted to keep going with work and, and I did, I kept going, but I wasn't really, uh... You know, I just wasn't excited about anything, and I really just, it was so blaringly obvious to me, like, what really was important to me in my life. And, uh, you know, I've always been a family person and love spending time with my husband and my kids and, you know, my sisters and spouses, but that became just even more obvious during that, that time period and, and client work, you know, was just client work.
I did it, uh, but I wasn't excited, excited about any of it. And I would say that was, like, an entire year for all of 2023. Yeah. You know? And you just don't know. Like you said, you know, some people grieve right away, and some people it takes a while, and, you know, everybody is different. So I love that that your book allows for that, for people to, like, take your experience but also apply it to their own situation too.
Brandi Holder: Yeah, because it, it is totally different for everybody, and it is, you know, it is hard losing anybody, and it is hard on all the other things that can happen that can, that can open that up for us. And, you know, I always think about there was this story that I read in Wired Magazine a long time ago, and I'll butcher it, and I wish I remember who wrote it.
But it was just about how, uh, women that had come through, like, really terrible situations like domestic violence and things like that had, uh, found an organization that taught them how to code. And so their story coming in was about having, uh, uh, they were a victim, like a true victim. They had been through something really terrible, and it was a piece that helped them identify and move through the story.
But as they became these, like, like, women coders, like doing these things they never thought was possible in their life- Mm-hmm ... they watched the story, the old story that was still very true, did not fit where they were going. Mm. And so for me, that's, that's really what it's about. It's not about, it's not about saying anyone's story is small or that you shouldn't hold onto it, it shouldn't be part of you.
It's, oh, whatever has happened to you in your life is always going to be a part of you. But I think that at some point you start to think, "Okay, this, this story has got me here, and now where is it taking me?" Yeah. Like, now at this level I can go and do this thing, and now maybe I'm going to share it with other people.
And so, I don't know, that's why I really like the power of stories in general because I think that they just help, they help other people lift up out of where they are. So I love the conversation that we had about not wrapping things up in a bow, and I think that's one of your things you're working on.
But also you have a, a really wonderful way of bringing a story out of somebody anyway so that they can think about it. When I go through, when I've read, listened to your podcast and, and I see everyone saying, "Oh my gosh, I didn't think of it this way," or, "This was really- Mm-hmm ... eye-opening for me," to be able to do that for a person is such a gift.
Toby Myles: Well, thank you. I appreciate your words. That is what I hope people get from it. There's, there's, I've had so many women, we dropped episode 70 this week, and I've had so many different women, and no two stories are alike. And I do feel like most people can find something relatable or something that really makes them think about how they might do things going forward or how they interact with people or something they w- might want to change about their lives.
And, um, so I appreciate you s- you saying that. So- Two, two more things before I let you go. If somebody is listening and they are thinking about, um, maybe starting a business, leaving a corporate job, um, either as a, a full-time thing or as a, a side hustle, what would be like your one best piece of advice you could give that person?
Brandi Holder: Oh, gosh, just one?
Toby Myles: You can give more. You can give more, but at least one.
Brandi Holder: You know what I think about a lot, I, I get a lot of people who come into my world and into my work who are, like, stressed out to the max because things are going really well. They have a lot of opportunity ahead of them, and they've over-calendared themselves.
So I think a lot about this when people go into business for themselves, right? Our tendency is like, "I need money, and I'm just gonna get started, so I'm gonna take every single thing that comes my way." Mm-hmm. And so I would say I would say taking a step, just taking a beat, and really getting clear on what your vision is, what your values and strengths are, and how you demonstrate them in your business.
Because one of the most important things that you're gonna need to be able to do is to say no to an opportunity that looks so freaking good on paper. Yeah. Right? And you're smiling because I know you have had this happen. Yes. Right? That opportunity is like, "Oh my gosh, I have to take this," but it's not, it's not the right opportunity in the long term.
But trying not to get swept away in the excitement of the moment. And so having a decision matrix to hold up that is so clear and so tight for you that you know that you wanna take the opportunity, but it doesn't fit. Oh my gosh, I wish I would've done that years and years ago. It would've saved me a lot of heartache, a lot of wrong fits, a lot of-
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm
Brandi Holder: spreading my money out thin in places, right? Yeah. So I would say that's a really big thing for me. Like, just take the, take the time to really, really get clear. And you can still experiment. There's ... I do a lot of experiments in my business, but getting clear on what, what really matters and what you're gonna say no to upfront so you don't get swept away.
Toby Myles: Yeah. That is such a good one, and I think it is very common, right? Especially in the beginning. You think, "I need money. I, I, I have a business. I need money. I need to say yes to everything." And I ... You're right, I did. I said yes to a lot of things that were not a good fit, and I learned- Yeah ... unfortunately, the hard way.
Brandi Holder: We do learn them.
Toby Myles: Yes, we do. But I, but I- I always say I'm a slow learner.
Brandi Holder: Yeah, but I think also sometimes we find ourselves in obligations that no longer fit, that we've outgrown a long time before we let them go.
Toby Myles: Yeah.
Brandi Holder: Right? And then, then what you're doing in that moment is that you are br- you're activating a stress response that's causing you bigger problems that are gonna show up drown- downstream in your business.
Mm. So it's just being able to get really ruthless upfront for a lot of reasons. And nobody wants to hear that because that's not very sexy and very glamorous, but it's, it's saved you some heartache down the road.
Toby Myles: Yes. For sure. For sure, for sure. I, I know now it's an actual physical response to something.
I can actually feel it in my gut when I know something is out of alignment with what I'm doing. But I also don't think that I would have known that when I started seven years ago. So there is, you know, something to be said for having had the experiences, knowing what my really true gifts are and where I really do my best work.
It, it took me a while to get to where I am now, and so ... But I, I love that advice. That's such good ... It's such good advice, right? Like, that pause in the beginning will serve you- Tenfold, twentyfold down the road, so I love that. And so, okay, how, I know that you are on LinkedIn. Um, I don't know if you're elsewhere.
Just let people know where they can find you and follow you.
Brandi Holder: Yeah, definitely LinkedIn. That's where we met. I spend a lot of time at the LinkedIn water cooler, and I love- Mm-hmm ... love, love to meet new people there. Um, so that's just under my name there. I don't use a business page. You can find me there. I'm getting, I'm starting Substack because I'm starting to release some of my, uh, experiments there, and so the first thing that's going out there is my 30 Days in, or 30 No's in 30 Days project that's coming live on Substack right now where I talk about what it looks like to collect evidence, uh, for success against a backdrop of negativity.
And so I'm talking a lot about how I've been doing that, and I'll be releasing some more of my book material there too.
Toby Myles: Oh, that's so good. I'm gonna keep my eyes peeled on that. That sounds actually like something I want to do. So thank you so much, Brandi. This has been so much fun. As I expected, I wasn't for sure certain where the conversation would go.
I knew we would touch on certain things, but, um, it's just, it's always fun for me to just kind of like follow the trail and follow the conversation, and this was really so much fun. And I think maybe we need, we'll need to have another episode when your book actually comes out, because we had a whole conversation about that before we pressed record, and, um, I think that would be fun to do a part two.
Brandi Holder: Yeah, for sure, and maybe we could do one where we both talk about the messy middle of our book.
Toby Myles: Mm-hmm. '
Brandi Holder: Cause I
Toby Myles: think- Way- ...
Brandi Holder: that would help ... way-
Toby Myles: That would help. Okay. We said it here on air, so now it's a thing. So we will do that.
Brandi Holder: Now, now it's a thing. I just accidentally made a th- I made an off-hand-
Toby Myles: You made a thing
I made an off-hand made a thing. No, I ... I love it. Thank you again so much. I really appreciate your time today.
Brandi Holder: Yeah. Thank you. It's been wonderful.